Preparing D-Jet for my '76 914, D-Jet Options

[Gatornapper]

Not long after I got my '76 914 in 2017, upon advice from the Brain Trust here, I purchased at a great price a working D-Jet complete from another member here who had pulled it from his '76 2.0 about 5 years earlier and had kept it all in boxes in his garage.

I have mentioned before that once I got the Weber IDF-44's dialed in and proven the condition of the engine, I would put the D-Jet in the car and see which I liked best. That's been the plan since I got the car almost. I used to work on Bosche EFI systems on my '72 Volvo and other Volvo's. Got very familiar with them.

Two things have now given me the motivation to move on installing the D-Jet.

1. Getting the CIS system working like new on the 924 Turbo/931 (after 17 years in storage) has reminded me of how great these old FI systems are when they are dialed in. Cold starts on the 931 are as good as my Cayman S. And in all conditions, the responsiveness of the FI is superb. Time for that in my 914.

2. Dr. Phil here as done an incredible favor for me on the major components of my D-Jet.

* He actually put my ECU in his car and proved that it is problem-free.

* He also did the same with the TPS. Turns out it only needed a good cleaning of the contacts, and he ran it too in his 914 (my fav 914)[anderssj 's green '72 a close second] and proved it t be good.

DrPhil - you are one incredible guy - and I cannot thank you enough.

So for major parts, that leaves my MPS. It needs rebuilding. No problem, I've rebuilt similar devices successfully. I have Tangerine's kit and his instructions and the other ones on the web. And have the ability to pull the vacuum needed and measure the inductance to dial it in.

Been cleaning up the parts and have this to show for it:

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/hosting.photobucket.com-21449-1643849920.1.jpg)

I have 2 problems, 1 of which is major. First, I'm still focused on the 931 with a lot to do on it. It is now my daily driver so my Cayman S can take a break after 96,000 mile (still like new).

The major problem is this: On Nov. 26th, the engine in my 914 very suddenly went to crap - after 2 years of running like new. After an hour of running fine, like normal, it very suddenly lost power. And it didn't want to even run below 1,500 rpm, and refuses to start. This is the easiest, quickest starting engine in my whole life, lighting up nicely after the very first spark. No more.

I did get the engine running and checked timing. Perfect. Engine runs smoothly and like normal without load above 1,500 rpm - sounds perfectly normal. But won't run below 1,500 rpm, and has no power.

Checked the compression: BUMMER! 63 low to 95 high, 73 and 78. Was 115, 118, 118, 120. Engine has now 66k miles on it. Yes, I'm overdue for a valve adjustment. But my lift has been occupied non-stop with the 931.

Hopefully next week I can get to adjusting the valves. I'm very afraid something far more serious is going on.

Why would engine go from running perfectly to no power and no idle? Suddenly?

Any thoughts as to what I might be dealing with here are greatly appreciated.

The D-Jet will be waiting if I've got major engine problems.

TIA,

GN

[wonkipop]

a valve?

either burnt or maybe its a valve spring.

have no experience of a dropped valve seat, but reading what others say here,
sounds like they are a bit more catastrophic (sounding).

what you describe above was just like my old squareback in my youth.
cruising along just fine.
then suddenly power dropped.
struggled along.
did it to me twice over the years i had it.
always the same valve. exhaust on cylinder 3.
the weakness of the type 3 pancake motor.
t 4 motors don't suffer that chronic weakness of one cylinder way hotter than the others,
but if you owned a type 3 long enough you were going to burn a valve sooner or later.
and they go just like what you describe.

time to pop of the valve covers and take a look at all the valve gear.
springs etc.

fingers crossed.

what a bummer.
good thing you have the 24 turbo to keep you smiling.
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

[emerygt350]

Wow, how disappointing! Since everything went to crap, I kind of doubt a dropped seat. Very unlikely they all dropped at exactly the same time.

What does the oil look like? I would be more inclined to think catastrophic cam failure. have you gotten a boroscope in there yet? 20 bucks on amazon gets you a decent one.

[Gatornapper]

Yes, have to check valve train when I get the 914 on the lift. Seeing what current lash is now will tell me a lot. Will look for anything abnormal

Yes, I have a scope, but as valves will be behind the camera I don't think I'll be able to see them.

Just hopeful the engine is intact internally. 66k miles, has been running like a dream. Then "bang" (was no bang), it's running badly.

If it were a valve or valve seat, don't see how it could run (sitting, no load) so well from 1500 rpm and up. Sounds perfectly normal.

BTW, engine was warm when I checked the compression.

Will keep you all posted.

GN

Wow, how disappointing! Since everything went to crap, I kind of doubt a dropped seat. Very unlikely they all dropped at exactly the same time.

What does the oil look like? I would be more inclined to think catastrophic cam failure. have you gotten a boroscope in there yet? 20 bucks on amazon gets you a decent one.

[Gatornapper]

I enjoy driving the 914 more than either the Cayman S or the 931, and really miss driving it on nice days.....

fingers crossed........Thank you.

what a bummer.........Yes.

good thing you have the 24 turbo to keep you smiling......Yes, indeed!
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

[914Mels]

Not long after I got my '76 914 in 2017, upon advice from the Brain Trust here, I purchased at a great price a working D-Jet complete from another member here who had pulled it from his '76 2.0 about 5 years earlier and had kept it all in boxes in his garage.

I have mentioned before that once I got the Weber IDF-44's dialed in and proven the condition of the engine, I would put the D-Jet in the car and see which I liked best. That's been the plan since I got the car almost. I used to work on Bosche EFI systems on my '72 Volvo and other Volvo's. Got very familiar with them.

Two things have now given me the motivation to move on installing the D-Jet.

1. Getting the CIS system working like new on the 924 Turbo/931 (after 17 years in storage) has reminded me of how great these old FI systems are when they are dialed in. Cold starts on the 931 are as good as my Cayman S. And in all conditions, the responsiveness of the FI is superb. Time for that in my 914.

2. Dr. Phil here as done an incredible favor for me on the major components of my D-Jet.

* He actually put my ECU in his car and proved that it is problem-free.

* He also did the same with the TPS. Turns out it only needed a good cleaning of the contacts, and he ran it too in his 914 (my fav 914)[anderssj 's green '72 a close second] and proved it t be good.

DrPhil - you are one incredible guy - and I cannot thank you enough.

So for major parts, that leaves my MPS. It needs rebuilding. No problem, I've rebuilt similar devices successfully. I have Tangerine's kit and his instructions and the other ones on the web. And have the ability to pull the vacuum needed and measure the inductance to dial it in.

Been cleaning up the parts and have this to show for it:

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/hosting.photobucket.com-21449-1643849920.1.jpg)

I have 2 problems, 1 of which is major. First, I'm still focused on the 931 with a lot to do on it. It is now my daily driver so my Cayman S can take a break after 96,000 mile (still like new).

The major problem is this: On Nov. 26th, the engine in my 914 very suddenly went to crap - after 2 years of running like new. After an hour of running fine, like normal, it very suddenly lost power. And it didn't want to even run below 1,500 rpm, and refuses to start. This is the easiest, quickest starting engine in my whole life, lighting up nicely after the very first spark. No more.

I did get the engine running and checked timing. Perfect. Engine runs smoothly and like normal without load above 1,500 rpm - sounds perfectly normal. But won't run below 1,500 rpm, and has no power.

Checked the compression: BUMMER! 63 low to 95 high, 73 and 78. Was 115, 118, 118, 120. Engine has now 66k miles on it. Yes, I'm overdue for a valve adjustment. But my lift has been occupied non-stop with the 931.

Hopefully next week I can get to adjusting the valves. I'm very afraid something far more serious is going on.

Why would engine go from running perfectly to no power and no idle? Suddenly?

Any thoughts as to what I might be dealing with here are greatly appreciated.

The D-Jet will be waiting if I've got major engine problems.

TIA,

GN

Sounds like the engine overheated and your valves tightened up. That would explain all the cylinders losing compression without new noises like loose valves from a worn cam or oily smoke from burned pistons. If they did in fact tighten up, you have timing issues or a lean running condition. Good luck.

[JamesM]

How overdue for a valve adjustment are you?

The fact that all 4 cyls dropped significantly is interesting.

Bad valve would only impact 1 cylinder
Bad cam would impact 2

Since you are talking about adding d-jet I assume you are running carbs, how were they running? possibly trashed your rings?

I would start with an oil change and valve adjustment and then re-assess

[emerygt350]

My boroscope cam with a right angle mirror for valves but it doesn't work very well (the mirror).

I really hope it is valve adjustment.

[Gatornapper]

Mets -

Thanks for your thoughts. But the engine did not overheat. I am one of those anal retentive nuts who keeps a continual close eye on my gauges. Especially in an engine that when I got it overheated. I dropped engine, thoroughly cleaned everything, new
T'stat, everything and engine has run nice and cool ever since.

And next day with cold engine, all remained the same.

GN

Not long after I got my '76 914 in 2017, upon advice from the Brain Trust here, I purchased at a great price a working D-Jet complete from another member here who had pulled it from his '76 2.0 about 5 years earlier and had kept it all in boxes in his garage.

I have mentioned before that once I got the Weber IDF-44's dialed in and proven the condition of the engine, I would put the D-Jet in the car and see which I liked best. That's been the plan since I got the car almost. I used to work on Bosche EFI systems on my '72 Volvo and other Volvo's. Got very familiar with them.

Two things have now given me the motivation to move on installing the D-Jet.

1. Getting the CIS system working like new on the 924 Turbo/931 (after 17 years in storage) has reminded me of how great these old FI systems are when they are dialed in. Cold starts on the 931 are as good as my Cayman S. And in all conditions, the responsiveness of the FI is superb. Time for that in my 914.

2. Dr. Phil here as done an incredible favor for me on the major components of my D-Jet.

* He actually put my ECU in his car and proved that it is problem-free.

* He also did the same with the TPS. Turns out it only needed a good cleaning of the contacts, and he ran it too in his 914 (my fav 914)[anderssj 's green '72 a close second] and proved it t be good.

DrPhil - you are one incredible guy - and I cannot thank you enough.

So for major parts, that leaves my MPS. It needs rebuilding. No problem, I've rebuilt similar devices successfully. I have Tangerine's kit and his instructions and the other ones on the web. And have the ability to pull the vacuum needed and measure the inductance to dial it in.

Been cleaning up the parts and have this to show for it:

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/hosting.photobucket.com-21449-1643849920.1.jpg)

I have 2 problems, 1 of which is major. First, I'm still focused on the 931 with a lot to do on it. It is now my daily driver so my Cayman S can take a break after 96,000 mile (still like new).

The major problem is this: On Nov. 26th, the engine in my 914 very suddenly went to crap - after 2 years of running like new. After an hour of running fine, like normal, it very suddenly lost power. And it didn't want to even run below 1,500 rpm, and refuses to start. This is the easiest, quickest starting engine in my whole life, lighting up nicely after the very first spark. No more.

I did get the engine running and checked timing. Perfect. Engine runs smoothly and like normal without load above 1,500 rpm - sounds perfectly normal. But won't run below 1,500 rpm, and has no power.

Checked the compression: BUMMER! 63 low to 95 high, 73 and 78. Was 115, 118, 118, 120. Engine has now 66k miles on it. Yes, I'm overdue for a valve adjustment. But my lift has been occupied non-stop with the 931.

Hopefully next week I can get to adjusting the valves. I'm very afraid something far more serious is going on.

Why would engine go from running perfectly to no power and no idle? Suddenly?

Any thoughts as to what I might be dealing with here are greatly appreciated.

The D-Jet will be waiting if I've got major engine problems.

TIA,

GN

Sounds like the engine overheated and your valves tightened up. That would explain all the cylinders losing compression without new noises like loose valves from a worn cam or oily smoke from burned pistons. If they did in fact tighten up, you have timing issues or a lean running condition. Good luck.

[Gatornapper]

Almost 5,000 miles since my last adjustment. Some of that hard driving too as everything has been working so well.

How overdue for a valve adjustment are you?

Sure got me buffaloed, but adjusting the valves is 1st on my list.

Carbs have been running perfectly, Really strong and smooth, with no problem areas.

GN

The fact that all 4 cyls dropped significantly is interesting.

Bad valve would only impact 1 cylinder
Bad cam would impact 2

Since you are talking about adding d-jet I assume you are running carbs, how were they running? possibly trashed your rings?

I would start with an oil change and valve adjustment and then re-assess

[914Mels]

If the engine gets hot enough to tighten up the valves, they actually stretch. They won't go back to normal after the engine cools down. The fact that you can't keep it running under 1500 rpms leads that way plus the low compression on all cylinders. A leak down test will point you in the right direction. Does the engine sound quieter than normal as far as valve train noise? That would be another tip off.

[DRPHIL914]

Rich, thanks for the kind words, you helped me out too so i am glad to return the favor! that ECU has been back and forth more than a ping pong ball!! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)
sorry to hear you are still having issues with the motor. Seems like maybe a good adjustment when its cool and then see. when i dropped the valve seat last year on #3 it was a sudden thing and a couple things at one time caused the sudden hot cylinder, but also these heads and motors are just only going to get so many heat cycles. if compression is that low its time to pull the motor, pull the heads and get a really good look at things. you might be able to do new rings, and an upper end head rebuild, get new valves and springs in those or really with new castings get new heads all the way around will be new, and you can leave the lower end alone if the cam is not worn bad and the crank endplay is in spec, do the upper end. Then put that d-jet on it and go. ( or the carbs if you prefer).

good luck and let us know how it checks out after redoing valve clearances.

Phil

[Gatornapper]

Phil -

Thanks. Time is still consumed with getting the 924 Turbo to where it's my daily driver.

Today got right Koni Sport shock in, tomorrow the left. Then new front rotors and maybe bearings.

Then tires.

Then 914 on lift for valve adjustment.

I'll be ok if bottom end is fine - been thinking about new P's & C's, new or rebuilt heads for a long time. Would love to make it a 2056, with the new cam.

Just too much going on now and now I've got some medical issues that are cramping my pace big time - nothing life-threatening, but something very painful.

My wood-working shop (used to be garage into basement & opens thru garage door to my 3-car attached garage/shop) is heated with workbenches, so in the cold I'm enjoying the detail work of refurbing the D-Jet system.....

So the 914 is on the back burner......

GN

Rich, thanks for the kind words, you helped me out too so i am glad to return the favor! that ECU has been back and forth more than a ping pong ball!! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)
sorry to hear you are still having issues with the motor. Seems like maybe a good adjustment when its cool and then see. when i dropped the valve seat last year on #3 it was a sudden thing and a couple things at one time caused the sudden hot cylinder, but also these heads and motors are just only going to get so many heat cycles. if compression is that low its time to pull the motor, pull the heads and get a really good look at things. you might be able to do new rings, and an upper end head rebuild, get new valves and springs in those or really with new castings get new heads all the way around will be new, and you can leave the lower end alone if the cam is not worn bad and the crank endplay is in spec, do the upper end. Then put that d-jet on it and go. ( or the carbs if you prefer).

good luck and let us know how it checks out after redoing valve clearances.

Phil

[Gatornapper]

D-Jet Distributor -

I know the D-Jet dizzy is vacuum activated with contact points for the ECU.

My current dizzy is a sweet 050 without the vacuum advance or the contact points.

What is the number of the dizzy I need for the D-Jet, what are alternatives (1-2-3?), and how hard will it be to find the original?

Like to start my searching now......

TIA,

GN

[914_teener]

D-Jet Distributor -

I know the D-Jet dizzy is vacuum activated with contact points for the ECU.

My current dizzy is a sweet 050 without the vacuum advance or the contact points.

What is the number of the dizzy I need for the D-Jet, what are alternatives (1-2-3?), and how hard will it be to find the original?

Like to start my searching now......

TIA,

GN

It.s not worth the time or money.trying to find a good workong replacement. BTDT. I looked for quite some timenwhen doing my restoration and just got sick of looking for a good one. Just get the 123. Unless ita going to be a concours car IMO theu work and perform better than tje stock dizzy.

[emerygt350]

Yes, 123 all the way.

[BeatNavy]

GN, I've got a 123 I'm not currently using. It's one of the older ones (non-bluetooth) but should be working fine. If you want to try it out I'll be glad to loan it to you whenever you are ready.

[Gatornapper]

Thank you - did not know the 123 could be had with the contacts for the ECU.

My only reservation there is spending that much $$$ on a dizzy to just get the D-Jet working.

Is there a less expensive path that I could take initially?

GN

Yes, 123 all the way.

[Gatornapper]

Rob -

WOW! Thank you! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/piratenanner.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smilie_pokal.gif)

Truly 914world is the greatest bunch of people on the planet! And you Rob are an example. Seems "Thank You!" just isn't enough.

I'll take you up on this once I've got the 2.0 running well again and proven to be still solid internally.

So I'm assuming it has the contacts for the ECU? Dumb question I know - D-Jet can't run without them.........

GN

GN, I've got a 123 I'm not currently using. It's one of the older ones (non-bluetooth) but should be working fine. If you want to try it out I'll be glad to loan it to you whenever you are ready.

[BeatNavy]

Rob -

WOW! Thank you! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/piratenanner.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smilie_pokal.gif)

Truly 914world is the greatest bunch of people on the planet! And you Rob are an example. Seems "Thank You!" just isn't enough.

I'll take you up on this once I've got the 2.0 running well again and proven to be still solid internally.

No problem, glad to help. I've received a ton of help and generosity here over the years. Just let me know when you think you're ready.

So I'm assuming it has the contacts for the ECU? Dumb question I know - D-Jet can't run without them.........

Yes, this is a D-Jet 123 Dizzy. It has two leads that connect to the D-jet wiring harness. It's very straightforward. You just have to decide which of the preset curves to use and then install. Installation can be a little tricky, admittedly. But once it's in, it's solid.