Excessive Cranking on start-up, Assistance request Options

[VaccaRabite]

The good news on the brakes is that its easy.
You call Eric, send him your cores and he sends you a new set of calipers. Install, bleed and done. I've been running his calipers for 10 years now.

Zach

[Van B]

Basically, I think I need to own up to the fact that the car need to be completely gone through. . . . But, the car is too old and unsafe to run at any kind of speed or to be taken very far.

@Van B

Good for you! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/cheer.gif)

Far too many are not willing to admit this. 914's are a ton of fun. The problem with most of them is that they are 50 years old and suffered a ton of neglect. Especially when most of them were in the hardcore NARP era and owners were just holding them together on a shoestring budget.

A well sorted car will be a pleasure. A limp along car in need of restoration . . . not so much!

Well sorted and mostly original is the goal. I have no aspirations for concourse or anything of the sort so, if I see some things where modern material can improve safety or reliability, I'll make those updates. But what I want is a time machine. I want to feel like it's a new-ish 914 every time I go for a drive.

I thought I could apply the same phased approach I did with my 996, but the reality is just as you described. This car was headed for disaster when I bought it. But by some miracle it has survived as an all original car for 49yrs. Unfortunately, I don't think it's a wise use of my time or energy to do things in phases. I'll just end up taking the same components apart multiple times.

I suppose I'll take the wife down the neighborhood back roads one more time this week and then begin the disassembly.

[Van B]

The good news on the brakes is that its easy.
You call Eric, send him your cores and he sends you a new set of calipers. Install, bleed and done. I've been running his calipers for 10 years now.

Zach

That's good to know I don't need to wait on the actual rebuild! I guess I never considered PMB would have a stock of calipers, but it makes perfect sense from a cost perspective.

[Cairo94507]

@Van B - That is a tough decision as we all want to drive our cars. But you made, in my mind, the right choice.

Upon buying my car in February 2010 I intended to do what you wanted, get her on the road for a bit before the ultimate restoration. Once I began compiling the list of required work before being comfortable driving her more than a block, doing the math, I quickly realized it may no sense and would waste time and money. I bit the bullet and elected to do a restoration. Aside from a 61 month trip down "fraud road", I made the correct decision. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

[Van B]

@Cairo94507
The paint is obviously something I can't do myself in a two car garage. Likewise, I don't have the space or all the tools to do the engine and transmission. But I'm thankful that all the work I've done on the FI to date as made me confident that both are in great shape. 53,000mi over 49yrs and it still runs strong. And the interior is in great shape as well.

So, that just leaves literally everything else for me to deal with.

[Superhawk996]

@Cairo94507
The paint is obviously something I can't do myself in a two car garage. Likewise, I don't have the space or all the tools to do the engine and transmission.

I beg to differ. You can do a great paint job in home garage. It may not be show car, Concours level but you can do a very respectable job. Even more so if you take the time to build a 2x4 / plastic / box fan spray booth within your garage. I painted my 1st 914 in a 1 1/2 car garage, wood stove for heat, 3 HP 10 gallon compressor. You can do more than you think you can.

Likewise, I rebuilt my 1st engine with basic K-mart socket set, adjustable wrench, vice grips, pliers, etc. I did end up buying my 1st torque wrench for that rebuild though! Buy the Tom Wilson book and get familiar with the job. Machine shop can do any of the precision measuring and hydraulic press work for you (to remove nose bearing from crank). It's not terribly hard -- it's a VW not a Ferrari!

Doubt me? See @bbrock thread. His paint is very respectable and was done in his home garage. Likewise, he went thorough his own engine. His home brew restoration is awesome!

[Van B]

@Superhawk996
I had a thought the other day and was close to posting a thread to pose the question, but decided not to, obviously lol...
Anyway, the question is this: How common are or were top end only overhauls on these type 4 engines? I was thinking about this in respect to my days of Cessna ownership and how I would do a top end at 800hrs and then a full rebuild at 1600hrs on my continental GO-300 engine.
Another way to say it is, how long does the bottom end on a type 4 typically last?

Edit: ref my earlier comment, the machine work and finishing is more what I'm talking about. And the fact that there's no room in the Inn for an engine to sit on a stand without kicking a car out to sleep in the weather. Sure, I could do an engine assembly at home, but when it's time for a rebuild, I'd rather have shop do it altogether; machining, finishing, cleaning, and assembly.

[emerygt350]

I have never done a type 4 rebuild but it looks like it really is machining optional. Do most people just buy new cylinders?

[wonkipop]

Basically, I think I need to own up to the fact that the car need to be completely gone through. . . . But, the car is too old and unsafe to run at any kind of speed or to be taken very far.

@Van B

Good for you! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/cheer.gif)

Far too many are not willing to admit this. 914's are a ton of fun. The problem with most of them is that they are 50 years old and suffered a ton of neglect. Especially when most of them were in the hardcore NARP era and owners were just holding them together on a shoestring budget.

A well sorted car will be a pleasure. A limp along car in need of restoration . . . not so much!

Well sorted and mostly original is the goal. I have no aspirations for concourse or anything of the sort so, if I see some things where modern material can improve safety or reliability, I'll make those updates. But what I want is a time machine. I want to feel like it's a new-ish 914 every time I go for a drive.

I thought I could apply the same phased approach I did with my 996, but the reality is just as you described. This car was headed for disaster when I bought it. But by some miracle it has survived as an all original car for 49yrs. Unfortunately, I don't think it's a wise use of my time or energy to do things in phases. I'll just end up taking the same components apart multiple times.

I suppose I'll take the wife down the neighborhood back roads one more time this week and then begin the disassembly.

paint is a big job to do properly.

if its reasonable. i'd leave it.
and just go full mechanical rebuild.

its more or less what i have done with mine.
suspension, brakes, clutch, fuel system, tires - all in one big hit.
i set aside the $ and just decided to do it that way.
however i do have a good situation here with a workshop arrangement.

your threads here have been very helpful to going the further step of sorting out the warm up system. some of these parts i have / had not been able to attend to due to the difficulty in finding parts, esp so in aus.
nevertheless the discussion has been extremely good as its got me closer to the last few details on mine.

i get a lot of joy out of driving it now.
and i agree with the time machine view you are taking.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

[Superhawk996]

I have never done a type 4 rebuild but it looks like it really is machining optional. Do most people just buy new cylinders?

@emerygt350 @Van B

I wouldn't say it's machining optional or top end only - it all depends on condition of the motor at time of teardown.

Typical machining needs for a stock build:

Deck case so pistons are flat & level - minimize leakage between piston & case
Rods need to be machined / resized - both big end & new bushings
Crank needs to be inspected for scoring & may need to go undersize (with appropriately sized bearings)
Case - aluminum cases are pretty robust but they are 50 years old. Bearing bores need to be measured for roundness & line bored if necessary.
Note: this is all machine shop work - just pay the man.


Heads usually need a little fly cutting to clean up the mating surface to the pistons.
Valve guides replaced and reamed to appropriate clearances
Valve seats cut & lapped
Note: Buy new heads from HAM and this is all taken care of for you.

If you have strong oil pressure, no leakage between pistons and case, you could consider a top end if leak down testing were showing that is where the majority of the leakage is at (i.e. the valves). I honestly don't think many engines out there fall into this category but I'm sure there are some well maintained engines that might get by with a top end only and be better for it.

[Van B]

I'd definitely agree that is the standard, correct way to do an engine rebuild. I'm thinking I'll give mine a thorough cleaning and run it a bit to assess oil leak locations before I take it apart. I want to be sure the oil I see is a push rod tube seal and not the cylinder base. If I'm right, then I'll leave the engine as the original build and see how long it lasts lol...

[wonkipop]

I'd definitely agree that is the standard, correct way to do an engine rebuild. I'm thinking I'll give mine a thorough cleaning and run it a bit to assess oil leak locations before I take it apart. I want to be sure the oil I see is a push rod tube seal and not the cylinder base. If I'm right, then I'll leave the engine as the original build and see how long it lasts lol...

if you have those air guide deflectors still on the exhaust between bottom of sump and heat exchangers unscrew them and take them off. then run the car and look at the oil leaks. you can take those deflectors off safely. the real tin ware head deflectors are further up closed to the cylinder fins. the lower deflectos serve a purpose by pushing the outbound air to the rear of the car and protecting the slung cables under the car to speedo and clutch. but it won't hurt to run it that way. that will give a real good look at that end of the pushrod tubes and the bottom of the cylinders.