Excessive Cranking on start-up, Assistance request Options

[Van B]

Hello scholars and masochists.

I’m requesting help on solving the issue of excessive cranking on start-up. Not once since I bought the car has it ever fired right up like others described for their cars. I had hoped that this issue was related to the other issues I’ve solved with the help of my friends here, but no luck. The behavior remains unchanged.

To start this off, I rigged a little hidden fuel pressure gauge to the car so that you all can see for yourself. For the context of this attempt, the engine is cold at around 60F, I did not touch the throttle and the ignition was in the on position prior to cranking.

https://youtu.be/DTTQ1zQJkJo


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DTTQ1zQJkJo


Edit: moving on to a new phase at post #152

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?s=&...t&p=2995793


Please advise and thanks in advance.

Van

[wonkipop]

Business end and harness plug:

i'm looking at your relay board and i swear i am seeing something weird.
might be my imagination.
feel free to call me insane.

i don't have those circular relays, or at least not all of them.
its been about two years since i was last in there.
so i could be deranged.

i can check later, its a pain the arse getting the cover off because the aircleaner has to come off to manouvre it off (do you have that problem with that cover?).

but i am sure they are not there.
and i thought i came across something once that explained why.
with L jet all those relays are not used and instead its the gear over the other side screwed up under the battery?

from memory too only one of those regular type fuses sitting in there is needed.
one of them is just for the heated rear window, if you have a heated rear window.
but again i better go check on that.

i will see if i can take that cover off later and have a spy inside mine again.

[wonkipop]

And finally, I’m back on the original task. Got the wires run, tidied up, and hack job splice into the coil wire re-soldered and restored.

Front end:

that fuel pump is nice and shiny. looks like a rebuilt one.
if it was rebuilt properly that little pressure check valve in it ought to have been working well and not causing you to lose fuel pressure so fast after shut off.
hmmm.

the cap on the end of the port assembly is definitely not the factory style cap.
its a cap you sometimes see on the remanufactured ones. so they have been in there and redone/cleaned the interior of the valve assembly.

[Van B]

Business end and harness plug:

i'm looking at your relay board and i swear i am seeing something weird.
might be my imagination.
feel free to call me insane.

i don't have those circular relays, or at least not all of them.
its been about two years since i was last in there.
so i could be deranged.

i can check later, its a pain the arse getting the cover off because the aircleaner has to come off to manouvre it off (do you have that problem with that cover?).

but i am sure they are not there.
and i thought i came across something once that explained why.
with L jet all those relays are not used and instead its the gear over the other side screwed up under the battery?

from memory too only one of those regular type fuses sitting in there is needed.
one of them is just for the heated rear window, if you have a heated rear window.
but again i better go check on that.

i will see if i can take that cover off later and have a spy inside mine again.

They are not all used, I just find it to be a handy place to keep some spares lol…
The fuse I only realized after I bought it lol so, it’s now a reserve fuse as well I guess.

I bought all that stuff the day I brought the car home because the original stuff was in really rough shape.

[Van B]

And finally, I’m back on the original task. Got the wires run, tidied up, and hack job splice into the coil wire re-soldered and restored.

Front end:

that fuel pump is nice and shiny. looks like a rebuilt one.
if it was rebuilt properly that little pressure check valve in it ought to have been working well and not causing you to lose fuel pressure so fast after shut off.
hmmm.

the cap on the end of the port assembly is definitely not the factory style cap.
its a cap you sometimes see on the remanufactured ones. so they have been in there and redone/cleaned the interior of the valve assembly.

I gave it some good cleaning but it is definitely not original to the car. Given that the car was in Atlanta for the past decade, I was able to connect the dots on where the pump came from without too much effort lol… I could look in the records, but I already have a new Bosch two port thatI will install with some SS fuel lines down the road.

[wonkipop]

Business end and harness plug:

i'm looking at your relay board and i swear i am seeing something weird.
might be my imagination.
feel free to call me insane.

i don't have those circular relays, or at least not all of them.
its been about two years since i was last in there.
so i could be deranged.

i can check later, its a pain the arse getting the cover off because the aircleaner has to come off to manouvre it off (do you have that problem with that cover?).

but i am sure they are not there.
and i thought i came across something once that explained why.
with L jet all those relays are not used and instead its the gear over the other side screwed up under the battery?

from memory too only one of those regular type fuses sitting in there is needed.
one of them is just for the heated rear window, if you have a heated rear window.
but again i better go check on that.

i will see if i can take that cover off later and have a spy inside mine again.

They are not all used, I just find it to be a handy place to keep some spares lol…
The fuse I only realized after I bought it lol so, it’s now a reserve fuse as well I guess.

I bought all that stuff the day I brought the car home because the original stuff was in really rough shape.

ahh ok. yes good place to store them. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
i got worried for a minute thinking, have i got something f'ed up in mine.
saves me tearing off my cover later this arvo. always not fun. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beer.gif)

[Van B]

Business end and harness plug:

i'm looking at your relay board and i swear i am seeing something weird.
might be my imagination.
feel free to call me insane.

i don't have those circular relays, or at least not all of them.
its been about two years since i was last in there.
so i could be deranged.

i can check later, its a pain the arse getting the cover off because the aircleaner has to come off to manouvre it off (do you have that problem with that cover?).

but i am sure they are not there.
and i thought i came across something once that explained why.
with L jet all those relays are not used and instead its the gear over the other side screwed up under the battery?

from memory too only one of those regular type fuses sitting in there is needed.
one of them is just for the heated rear window, if you have a heated rear window.
but again i better go check on that.

i will see if i can take that cover off later and have a spy inside mine again.

They are not all used, I just find it to be a handy place to keep some spares lol…
The fuse I only realized after I bought it lol so, it’s now a reserve fuse as well I guess.

I bought all that stuff the day I brought the car home because the original stuff was in really rough shape.

ahh ok. yes good place to store them. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
i got worried for a minute thinking, have i got something f'ed up in mine.
saves me tearing off my cover later this arvo. always not fun. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beer.gif)

I pull out the VR and then pry out the cover. Still awkward, but I can get to it that way

[wonkipop]

i've got a glovebox full of fuses.
its not good for much else. yet one another disadvantage of rhd. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)
the floor bin comes in handy. just as well the original owner was thoughtful enough to tick that box in the showroom.

to which i need to add some relays. if i can fit them in there!

[Van B]

Well you know where else you can keep two extra lol..

[wonkipop]

some OT subject matter for light relief.
and for @Emerygt350 amusement.

finally made it to the tub stage on the falcon ute yesterday.
all that is left to do.
getting ext/int trim back in and fitted was a delicate task given the beautifully brittle plastic (probably since new being state of the art 1980s/90s aus heavy molecules).
but i broke nothing and its done.

had a friend who is a cultural objects conservator doing the interior clean.
all she uses is water, water, water, scrub scrub scrub (toothbrushes etc) and occasionally a very mild detergent. and time. boy is she patient. three quarters of an hour on the steering wheel. but i couldn't believe the end result. its a 300K car and the wheel came back like showroom. looks it and feels it. like putting your hands on pure vinyl again.

conservator in question has an interest in cars. her father ran one of the biggest GM dealerships in NSW and they won bathurst 500 back in 1968. but she bribed me. i had to take her for a run in the 914 yesterday for about 2 hours. which i duly did.

the car is a bit like a northern USA car. heaps of rust but perfect interior. a rare thing in aus. usually its the other way around. i dealt with the rust thanks to dickhead dan the dicktator and learned new skills, though not sure i want to deploy them again.

you will be pleased to know @Van B the local news last night was dominated by disclosure that the dicktator is vid + and has to go into isolation for 14 days.
along with his family. feel real sorry for him.





have managed to plough through 2 cars in about 2.5 years.
i'm a mere month away from getting the 914 back in and up on a hoist instead of jackstands to to the fuel pump/fuel line mods and a few other tuning touches again.

photo below.
march 2020.
914 nearly done and ute awaiting either burial at sea or major surgery.

[wonkipop]

back on topic.

@Van B have you picked up the difference in original spec fuel pumps for front location that porsche themselves did back in 75.

its small difference, but they did beef up the fuel pump to deal with the longer circuit.

[Van B]

Rough life you have!

Lady cleans your car like it’s a Roman sculpture and the payment is to take her on a cheap date?!

It’s definitely not much of a boost in FP, but probably enough to make up for the extra meter of line to push through.

I looked at my future pump yesterday and I don’t even know which way it flows lol!

I figured the small composite port is the outflow, but I guess that’s a riddle for another day…

[wonkipop]

Rough life you have!

Lady cleans your car like it’s a Roman sculpture and the payment is to take her on a cheap date?!

It’s definitely not much of a boost in FP, but probably enough to make up for the extra meter of line to push through.

I looked at my future pump yesterday and I don’t even know which way it flows lol!

I figured the small composite port is the outflow, but I guess that’s a riddle for another day…

one of the benefits of being an old man?
got rid of life's complications 20 years ago.
that was the rough stage of life.
getting the payback now.

i did do well on the labour exchange rate.
since i was having fun driving the 914 as a pay cheque.

she didn't want a drive of the 914 even though i parked it in a quiet part of the industrial estate in the docks and offered. but i have a feeling i am going to get the hard word put on me for a drive of the ute. she has never driven a ford being brought up a holden girl.
i don't know if that rivalry existed in the USA but here back a generation you either drove one or the other and nothing in between. the motor sport fans used to have beer can wars up on top of the mountain at bathurst during the big race and try and kill each other.

---

don't forget that they also used a smaller diam output hose to the engine as well.
pretty sure about that, but would have to look it up to check.
dunno if the SS kits do the variation or if they duplicate earlier year fuel line diams.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

[Van B]

Tangerine has size options based on front or rear pump.

On this whole 914 project, I’m trying to maximize my purchases from the folks who built businesses based on keeping these cars on the road as well as members of the community.

Back on topic for this thread, I bought another TTS, this one is the Bosch part that is called for on the 928, but Porsche traces the PN back to the 912E.

I’ll test it and the fuel pump at the same time I guess. I’ve got the CSV pulled from the manifold so I can mist the engine again like a responsible 914 owner (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

Oh and Ford Chevy and Dodge are the competing truck brands from back in the day. Folks would make jokes or talk shit, but never serious.

[wonkipop]

Tangerine has size options based on front or rear pump.

On this whole 914 project, I’m trying to maximize my purchases from the folks who built businesses based on keeping these cars on the road as well as members of the community.

Back on topic for this thread, I bought another TTS, this one is the Bosch part that is called for on the 928, but Porsche traces the PN back to the 912E.

I’ll test it and the fuel pump at the same time I guess. I’ve got the CSV pulled from the manifold so I can mist the engine again like a responsible 914 owner (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

Oh and Ford Chevy and Dodge are the competing truck brands from back in the day. Folks would make jokes or talk shit, but never serious.

umm, the 914 TTS just looks like a regular one they normally stick into the coolant circuit on most cars. must be sensitized way differently since its just parked in the air there above the crankcase? what about a kombi van TTS? didn't later air cooled bugs run L jet?
like the last of the mexican taxis. maybe they have them? and good enough to work well on 914.

----

the ford/holden thing was not your trucks. it was your everyday regular mum and dad sedans and station wagons. the crowd on the hill at bathurst left civilisation behind when they went up there for the race. take your life in your own hands back in those days. all the guys who owned chryslers just stayed out of it. and if you owned a japanese car they would burn it. i think australia suffered from post traumatic stress disorder for at least 2 generations after world war 2. these days they are all so-fist-eekated global travellers with soft hands and drive hi-your-undies are compact suvs.

[Van B]

Tested the fuel pressure with the new wiring today and there is no improvement on fuel pressure build up.

Even though it’s disappointing, I’m glad the wiring is now correct.

At this point are we all in agreement that my excessive cranking time is due to the slow fuel pressure build?

Any thoughts on where to go next?

[wonkipop]

rebuild it as an AN with high compression pistons?

.......

or are you asking what to do next about not getting the bam start?


(IMG:style_emoticons/default/beer.gif)

[Van B]

Lol... The latter.
But the former is on my list too. A little more compression is all this L-jet needs to really sing!

[wonkipop]

Lol... The latter.
But the former is on my list too. A little more compression is all this L-jet needs to really sing!

an AN on the twin carbs (lame solex carbs) had 85HP.
5 short of a USA 2.0L.
it must be possible to do an AN with L JET and hit 90 (at minimum)?

---

try fitting an inline pressure check valve after the fuel pump.
relatively cheap to get hold of / easy to install.
might lose pressure over a week, but it could hold the pressure for a day or so.
give you a faster start throughout a day of operation at least?
think you have to have the fuel pump in stock position like i have to get the real bam start? and thats got problems that go with it for modern turbine pumps that i believe get worse that back in the day with roller cells. i feel pretty sure that the turbine pump i have is more vunerable to heat than the old one. one of a number of factors giving me strife on hotter days.

[emerygt350]

My car doesn't hold pressure for more than 20 minutes, not an l-jet I know, but I suspect it isn't the issue here. Have we gone and checked the spark yet? There could still be something causing weak spark.

[wonkipop]

Maybe someone with an l jet could comment what their fuel pressure holds at when turned off. Our D jet holds around 20psi for a long time.

my L jet will hold at 20lbs after around 6-7 hours. or did 2 years ago. from somewhere around 28 or so at idle. fuel pump in original position and brand new.

but i know what you are saying emery.
what else draws current. starter?