What's with this 6?, a factory six vin with a later front clip? Options

[jhynesrockmtn]

An acquaintance in our local PCA club emailed some pics of a supposed factory 6 a family is trying to sell after the death of the long term owner. I'm no expert, but if a 6 (and the VIN looks right) it looks like it has a 75/76 front clip on it. I'm supposed to get a write up from the son explaining the history. The goal at this point is to educate the family more about what they have and potential value. The front of the car is a bit of a mess.

Any advice on what to look for in terms of verifying what this thing is? I've suggested they look for the VIN stamping in the rear trunk floor, the plaque in the front trunk looks to be gone or painted over.

I've not seen any engine pics yet.

[jhynesrockmtn]

Anyone familiar with this car out of central OR?

[SirAndy]

I'm no expert, but if a 6 (and the VIN looks right) it looks like it has a 75/76 front clip on it.

The for sale Ad from 9 years ago mentions the '75 front clip:
www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=211234
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/popcorn[1].gif)

[jhynesrockmtn]

I'm no expert, but if a 6 (and the VIN looks right) it looks like it has a 75/76 front clip on it.

The for sale Ad from 9 years ago mentions the '75 front clip:
www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=211234
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/popcorn[1].gif)

Excellent, thanks. That fills in a lot. Apparently the owner passed and his family is trying to figure out how to sell the car, trailer and various parts.

[914werke]

happened a fair bit "back in the day", when tha cars were not valued as highly as today.
If the entire front clip was replaced, It may have been a pretty big shunt, contrary to his claim. Proceed with eyes open.

[emerygt350]

Is that a full replacement? Doesn't look like it. I don't see the added supports in there. I may just be missing it though.

[rgalla9146]

The gas tank bulkhead has a '75-'76 body tag and fuel pump access hole.
Not a good sign.
Lets see the stamped in 914 043 0505 in the righr front wheel house.

[mb911]

The gas tank bulkhead has a '75-'76 body tag and fuel pump access hole.
Not a good sign.
Lets see the stamped in 914 043 0505 in the righr front wheel house.

Read Andy's link. That car was basically front halved..

[davep]

So the compliance decal and the A pillar VIN tag agree with the assertion that this is 9140430505. Look for the paint tag, and get a photo. Look for the Karmann body number in the rear trunk just in front of the lock; get a photo. If clear that is good, if not, try to figure it out; should be 130xxx where xxx is close to 505.
Next is to figure out where the front clip was welded on; it would appear that was aft of the bulkhead in front of the fuel tank.
Also look to see what the prospects are for returning to stock nose.
Check for the usual 1970 914/6 features: interior, guages, brake calipers in the rear, and so on. Can you get the transmission number. I can get the data for a CoA, but it sounds like the owner may have had one or had some documents with the engine number on it. To that end, what original documents are available for the car. If he had the car for 50 years, then he may have been an original owner, and had a lot of documentation; that can add some value.

[SirAndy]

Next is to figure out where the front clip was welded on;

They are usually cut across the passenger compartment since that is the easiest place to stitch them back together. The seam should be obvious, especially from under the car.

My guess would either across the front seat rail support or close to the rear firewall.
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/sawzall-smiley.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smash.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/welder.gif)

[914werke]

Hopefully it isn't that butchered. I had one in the shop not long ago that was a good example.
45k Saturn yellow (yes really!) 74 w/Appearance & sport groups. From the outside a Very nice stock appearing car.
Open the hood, (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif) It had been grafted with a late crosswall & L. fender well back to the bulkhead. Not bad ...but would be obvious to the causal observer.
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

[ClayPerrine]

The gas tank bulkhead has a '75-'76 body tag and fuel pump access hole.
Not a good sign.
Lets see the stamped in 914 043 0505 in the righr front wheel house.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif)

If there is anything other than 9140430505 in the right front fender, it is no longer that car. The vin tag on the windshield is easy to change. The compliance sticker is easy to reproduce. The stamped number is the car, at least according to Texas law.

Clay

[rgalla9146]

The gas tank bulkhead has a '75-'76 body tag and fuel pump access hole.
Not a good sign.
Lets see the stamped in 914 043 0505 in the righr front wheel house.

Read Andy's link. That car was basically front halved..

Just read it.
Excellent selling 'strategy'
Repeat offender

[mb911]

The gas tank bulkhead has a '75-'76 body tag and fuel pump access hole.
Not a good sign.
Lets see the stamped in 914 043 0505 in the righr front wheel house.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif)

If there is anything other than 9140430505 in the right front fender, it is no longer that car. The vin tag on the windshield is easy to change. The compliance sticker is easy to reproduce. The stamped number is the car, at least according to Texas law.

Clay

Just wondering is there the correct stamps out there that could reproduce the factory stamps for that part. It just seems that if in an accident and you needed to repair that area you are kind of screwed otherwise?

[Cairo94507]

I agree, that would be a problem. God forbid that would happen to anyone but I would photo the car with the crashed area and showing the stamped VIN. I would then send the car to the best metal craftsman one could find to get that section of the car repaired.

I have seen some damaged cars get straightened out with time, patience and skill. I was fortunate my car was never hit hard before I got her. Sure, we replaced 3 of the 4 corners and the nose panel, but that really was not that bad. Were it not for the damage done by the VA shop, my metal work would have been minor in comparison.

Swapping the original stamped metal VIN into another inner fender is troubling and really a slippery slope as the possibility of fraud raises its ugly head.

[dr914@autoatlanta.com]

if chopped through the middle with a 75 front end, it would be a complete mess as the whole bulkhead would be different and extremely difficult to retro fit the six dash as the late cars had the fresh air vents for the redesigned bulkhead. If under the fuel tank not so bad as it could be "fixed" by welding up the fuel pump access hole and adding an early 70-72 front panel with headlight boxes and lateral supports

[Superhawk996]

I agree, that would be a problem. God forbid that would happen to anyone but I would photo the car with the crashed area and showing the stamped VIN. I would then send the car to the best metal craftsman one could find to get that section of the car repaired.

I have seen some damaged cars get straightened out with time, patience and skill. I was fortunate my car was never hit hard before I got her. Sure, we replaced 3 of the 4 corners and the nose panel, but that really was not that bad. Were it not for the damage done by the VA shop, my metal work would have been minor in comparison.

Swapping the original stamped metal VIN into another inner fender is troubling and really a slippery slope as the possibility of fraud raises its ugly head.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif)

Thorough documentation is the key to justification of what happened and how it was fixed. Unfortunately far too many /6's out there in circulation with shady, undocumented history going back to the days when they weren't worth much. The higher prices go, the more we'll see repairs trying to hide the fact that accident damage has occurred somewhere along the way.

At least in this case the swap is obvious and pretty easy to see what has happened - I get concerned the more someone tries to hide that fact.

[porschetub]

I agree, that would be a problem. God forbid that would happen to anyone but I would photo the car with the crashed area and showing the stamped VIN. I would then send the car to the best metal craftsman one could find to get that section of the car repaired.

I have seen some damaged cars get straightened out with time, patience and skill. I was fortunate my car was never hit hard before I got her. Sure, we replaced 3 of the 4 corners and the nose panel, but that really was not that bad. Were it not for the damage done by the VA shop, my metal work would have been minor in comparison.

Swapping the original stamped metal VIN into another inner fender is troubling and really a slippery slope as the possibility of fraud raises its ugly head.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif)

Thorough documentation is the key to justification of what happened and how it was fixed. Unfortunately far too many /6's out there in circulation with shady, undocumented history going back to the days when they weren't worth much. The higher prices go, the more we'll see repairs trying to hide the fact that accident damage has occurred somewhere along the way.

At least in this case the swap is obvious and pretty easy to see what has happened - I get concerned the more someone tries to hide that fact.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) atleast it has been clearly stated however sad how they went to a donor piece from the wrong era,very costly to correct unless the new owner wants it right and the rest of the car is in reasonable shape and not too rotten probably best left alone if the price is right (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif) .

[jhynesrockmtn]

Looking at the now deceased owners previous posts and pics it looks like the car would require a serious inspection. I can't tell how original the interior is from the few crappy pics I was sent. The original engine is long gone. His family has mentioned $50k for the car, extra 2.7, trailer and other parts. I'm not interested in it but happy to connect someone who might be if you send me a PM. Might be worth a look if you are local to the Bend OR area.

[Jonathan Livesay]

Looking at the now deceased owners previous posts and pics it looks like the car would require a serious inspection. I can't tell how original the interior is from the few crappy pics I was sent. The original engine is long gone. His family has mentioned $50k for the car, extra 2.7, trailer and other parts. I'm not interested in it but happy to connect someone who might be if you send me a PM. Might be worth a look if you are local to the Bend OR area.

Looking at the now deceased owner's previous posts it occurs to me to wonder if a potential buyer offed the dude when multiple requests for pictures went unanswered. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif)