EV 914's Options

[raynekat]

Whether you like 'em or not....they are definitely a wave of the future.
Not sure what I think about the whole idea myself.

Still have the rear luggage boot which is nice.

It's pretty slick the bolt in rear cradle that holds some of the batteries, Tesla motor, cooling, etc.

The "custom" look is pretty bad as to me.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hJTNsH-SIqk

[930cabman]

One of my favorite parts of the 914 is the light weight. Batteries and light weight are not a fit.

The technology is at least a bunch of years away until EV's can compete with our time tested IC engines

[bbrock]

One of my favorite parts of the 914 is the light weight. Batteries and light weight are not a fit.

The technology is at least a bunch of years away until EV's can compete with our time tested IC engines

Hmm, the last 8 Le Mans winners were EV hybrids using Lithium ion batteries. Seems they can compete in at least some respects.

And again, review the examples we are talking about here. Dump part of the front battery pack and move what you can into the fuel tank compartment and you have a lightweight 914 that weighs no more than a stock six with probably a little over 100 miles of range that will smoke most ICE configurations we've stuffed into these chassis.

I'm not an EV fanboy and think they have some improvements to make before an EV will be parked in my garage, but the technology has a lot to offer even today. These two cars in particular check a lot of boxes.

[Superhawk996]

And again, review the examples we are talking about here. Dump part of the front battery pack and move what you can into the fuel tank compartment and you have a lightweight 914 that weighs no more than a stock six with probably a little over 100 miles of range that will smoke most ICE configurations we've stuffed into these chassis.

@bbrock

I think you missed the part where I was super generous with my package assumptions and said let's ASSUME we can package 62L of battery with 100% package efficiency.

I made no allowance for Battery Management System, battery cooling loop plumbing, high voltage wiring, and power electronics.

You will get nowhere near that battery capacity I calculated in the that fuel tank compartment in REALITY

Take a look a the Beetle picture closely. You'd be lucky to fit 2 of those battery modules in the volume available for the fuel tank. So maybe 10 KWh of battery capacity with only 80% of that being usable (IMG:style_emoticons/default/shades.gif) You will get no where 100 miles of range on batteries that only take up the fuel tank compartment on current battery technology . Oh, and take a look at the weight of the Beetle battery pack -- I was also super generous with the weight estimate too (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

You will not keep the dynamic handling character of a 914 with an EV conversion.

You're reference to LeMans is an apples to oranges comparison. I don't deny that a purpose designed EV racer can do well w.r.t. handling given the batteries will be packaged for low Cg and centralized mass . . . a cobbled 914 EV conversion is another story and the handing WILL be degraded because of the physics and the realities of where we are w.r.t. battery technology.

Seems the boundless optimism is creeping in. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grouphug.gif)

[bbrock]

You're reference to LeMans is an apples to oranges comparison. I don't deny that a purpose designed EV racer can do well w.r.t. handling given the batteries will be packaged for low Cg and centralized mass . . . a cobbled 914 EV conversion is another story and the handing WILL be degraded because of the physics and the realities of where we are w.r.t. battery technology.

Nope. Because I didn't make that comparison, you did. The statement I was responding to was that EV technology is years away from being able to compete with ICE. That said, I know what @930cabman was saying and generally agree. Until we are able to conveniently get 200 miles+ range on a 15 minute charge, I don't think EVs will compete with ICE for the full spectrum of use cases for cars. We need a LOT of improvement in charging infrastructure and some improvement in battery/charging tech. However, I think it is fair to say EV is already out-competing ICE in many areas of what we expect cars to do and already satisfy some use cases nicely.

One example, we are in need of a new truck and are eyeing the Ford F150 Lightening carefully. Why? Because we only use pickup trucks for hauling crap in the bed, and 200 miles of range is more than enough for us for that purpose. We could charge it with our solar power at home AND the truck could be used as battery backup for our house. A Youtuber did the math and figured out it is actually cheaper to by an F150 than to buy the equivalent number of Tesla Powerwalls to match the energy storage of the truck. Of course, that is an insane amount of storage for backup of most homes, but funny to think about.

[Superhawk996]

One example, we are in need of a new truck and are eyeing the Ford F150 Lightening carefully. Why? Because we only use pickup trucks for hauling crap in the bed, and 200 miles of range is more than enough for us for that purpose.

Love the optimism. You will get no where near 200 miles of range hauling heavy cargo or towing.

Before I left the industry, I was in discussions with the major RV manufacturers. They are very concerned about their business model given the coming mandates. As in, if EV's are mandated as currently planned, the RV industry ceases to exist.

Think towing ranges of 90 miles. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)

https://www.motor1.com/news/590117/f150-lig...-towing-camper/
"Before Schmidt connected the trailer to the truck, the range was 85 miles (137 kilometers). After entering the measurements of the trailer onto the system, the Lightning automatically recalculated the range to 54 mi (87 km). As for efficiency, he said that he's seeing 0.8 mi/kWh when the trailer's connected – around half of the usual 1.5-1.8 mi/kWh he's getting sans the Airstream camper."

Good thing you're towing the camper with an EV truck. You'll basically be living out of the camper while you're waiting for the next charge so you can move down the road another 100 miles. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sheeplove.gif)

I know . . . we'll just put an electric platform under the trailer so that it can provide it's own motive power, reducing parasitic load on the EV tow vehicle.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rQEztxVGEbI


(IMG:style_emoticons/default/av-943.gif) Have you ever actually used a fast charger?

Now imagine:
1) Trying to find one with enough space for a truck and the trailer
2) A situation where you can charge both the truck and the trailer simultaneously
3) Having to disconnect the trailer to charge the truck. Then move the trailer to be charged - but putting the truck elsewhere while the trailer charges.
4) Not being murdered while napping in the camper by those lined up behind you waiting for their chance to charge.

[bbrock]

One example, we are in need of a new truck and are eyeing the Ford F150 Lightening carefully. Why? Because we only use pickup trucks for hauling crap in the bed, and 200 miles of range is more than enough for us for that purpose.

Love the optimism. You will get no where near 200 miles of range hauling heavy cargo or towing.

Before I left the industry, I was in discussions with the major RV manufacturers. They are very concerned about their business model given the coming mandates. As in, if EV's are mandated as currently planned, the RV industry ceases to exist.

Think towing ranges of 90 miles. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)

https://www.motor1.com/news/590117/f150-lig...-towing-camper/
"Before Schmidt connected the trailer to the truck, the range was 85 miles (137 kilometers). After entering the measurements of the trailer onto the system, the Lightning automatically recalculated the range to 54 mi (87 km). As for efficiency, he said that he's seeing 0.8 mi/kWh when the trailer's connected – around half of the usual 1.5-1.8 mi/kWh he's getting sans the Airstream camper."

Good thing you're towing the camper with an EV truck. You'll basically be living out of the camper while you're waiting for the next charge so you can move down the road another 100 miles. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sheeplove.gif)

I know . . . we'll just put an electric platform under the trailer so that it can provide it's own motive power, reducing parasitic load on the EV tow vehicle.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rQEztxVGEbI


(IMG:style_emoticons/default/av-943.gif) Have you ever actually used a fast charger?

Now imaging:
1) Trying to find one with enough space for a truck and the trailer
2) A situation where you can charge both the truck and the trailer simultaneously
3) Having to disconnect the trailer to charge the truck. Then move the trailer to be charged - but putting the truck elsewhere while the trailer charges.
4) Not being murdered while napping in the camper by those lined up behind you waiting for their chance to charge.

Goodness. That sure is a lot of extrapolating and speculation about my pickup use case. The farthest I've ever driven our pickup in the last 20 years is 40 miles one way. Truck is always empty on one direction. Ninety percent of loads hauled are lightweight building materials. The rest are loads of soil/gravel/etc. usually hauled only 20 miles. Trust me, 200 miles of range is PLENTY for our pickup needs even accounting for actual hauling range and I will probably never have to use a public charger. If I did, who said anything about a trailer? Did I mention a trailer? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

Yes, I can read and understand what the truck can and cannot do. It fits our needs rather nicely. I get that it isn't the ticket for a lot of pickup owner's needs, but it would work well for us. BTW, another perk of this truck is that will make it easy to use power tools for projects on the "back 10" remote from the house. Can't say that about ICE.

[Superhawk996]

Goodness. That sure is a lot of extrapolating and speculation about my pickup use case. The farthest I've ever driven our pickup in the last 20 years is 40 miles one way.

@bbrock

Yeah . . . I get that it it will work for your use case to haul an occasional sheet of plywood or to haul your ICE engine to the landfill (IMG:style_emoticons/default/happy11.gif)

I was just having fun . . . like all other EV hype, I've been severely disappointed that the OEM's won't answer the heavy cargo and/or towing range question head on and have left it to 3rd party review like the one I posted. Instead, they are hoping that the public only remembers the 200 mile number and they are pretending an EV truck is just as capable as a ICE truck. Yet, simultaneously, they are already in discussion with the RV industry about the range deficiency.