EV 914's Options

[bbrock]

So we'll call the total 600 lbs for that rear module.

Why? Didn't @914e show it can be done with 428 lbs? It's fine to be skeptical, but you are just speculating on the weight of the conversions.

A big chunk of your success will depend where that front mass goes. If you can get it inside the fuel tank compartment, that is a huge success to keep mass centralized. As it continues to move forward from the OEM location, you'll be adding to moment of inertia even though the weight might be close to a full fuel tank. Location of the front weight matters a lot.

This is all I've been trying to say all along. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/chair.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[Chris914n6]

@Superhawk996

As someone who used to work at a conversion company and has driven almost one of everything, I feel you are over estimating the impact the weight shift has. Will it be noticed... yes to a skilled driver, will it kill the gocart feel... not so much.

How many of us actually drive curvy roads at 10/10 where it would be detrimental like a 911 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/av-943.gif) The 911 seems to do ok in racing too (IMG:style_emoticons/default/poke.gif)

I have a complete t4 package in the garage, I will have to weight it as I thought it was 280 ish.

[Superhawk996]

@Superhawk996

As someone who used to work at a conversion company and has driven almost one of everything, I feel you are over estimating the impact the weight shift has. Will it be noticed... yes to a skilled driver, will it kill the gocart feel... not so much.

How many of us actually drive curvy roads at 10/10 where it would be detrimental like a 911 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/av-943.gif) The 911 seems to do ok in racing too (IMG:style_emoticons/default/poke.gif)

I have a complete t4 package in the garage, I will have to weight it as I thought it was 280 ish.

While it may be true that some people don't have the ability to notice - those are folks best served by EV's in general and EV conversions specifically. However, I've been a professional development engineer and test driver capable of doing limit handling and chassis tuning for most of my career.

It matters. To say otherwise is to argue that physics doesn't apply to EV's. Handling maneuvers don't have to be at 10/10 to notice either. Simple transient maneuvers like emergency lane change and/or how well the vehicle turns into a constant radius corner will be enough to tell the difference.

If anyone is unsure where they fall in handling sensitivity spectrum, $30 of pea gravel should help them determine what they are or aren't capable of feeling.

With respect to the 911 comments . . . . long ago, I choose the 914 because it has superior handling to a 911 of the same vintage. I don't see the need to turn a 914 into a 911 since they are already out there if someone wants that experience.

[Superhawk996]

Didn't @914e show it can be done with 428 lbs? It's fine to be skeptical, but you are just speculating on the weight of the conversions.

I admitted I'm intrigued. Would like to see it physically done or at least modeled in CAD before we celebrate. Sometimes reality has a way of getting in the way of the product as conceived. Not saying that will happen here but it is my nature to be a skeptic.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

[CCE]

I do agree EV is the future, and technology is moving very fast this days, everyone will be able to get the new EV technology for cheap very soon…

Just don’t break your precious 914 Porsche just now, gas will continue existing, (maybe more expensive), you will have your tool to commute. And your gas burning fumes and noise generator to smile on the weekends.

If you want an electric Porsche you can get a Taycan…

[bbrock]

If anyone is unsure where they fall in handling sensitivity spectrum, $30 of pea gravel should help them determine what they are or aren't capable of feeling.

With respect to the 911 comments . . . . long ago, I choose the 914 because it has superior handling to an 911 of the same vintage. I don't see the need to turn a 914 into a 911 since they are already out there if someone wants that experience.

I do think we should be careful not to use value statements like "degrades" handling characteristics since that presumes the owner's preferences. I've heard people say the BUBs on late model 914 make the cars more comfortable for touring. One person's "degrade" may be another's "improve." IMO, one of the coolest things about 914s is how versatile they are for a 2-seater sports car.

I'll have to say, if I was a good enough driver to swing the tail of a 911 out around corners, I think I'd find them quite fun. I've come close in a 914 twice. Both times the car spun like a top. It wasn't on purpose of course. A combo of sand covered roads, bald tires, and undeveloped brain contributed. Rather shocking how quickly one goes from feeling firmly planted to watching the scenery repeat several times in a couple seconds. Might have been avoided if I'd have been hauling some sand bags in each trunk. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

[bbrock]

If you want an electric Porsche you can get a Taycan…

Nah, This is the electric Porsche for me (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/newsroom.porsche.com-20845-1656371515.1.jpg)

[wonkipop]

I do agree EV is the future, and technology is moving very fast this days, everyone will be able to get the new EV technology for cheap very soon…

Just don’t break your precious 914 Porsche just now, gas will continue existing, (maybe more expensive), you will have your tool to commute. And your gas burning fumes and noise generator to smile on the weekends.

If you want an electric Porsche you can get a Taycan…

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif)

i've got a feeling what might happen, at least down here, is you might at some point have to purchase C02 credits to run old cars as well as find the gasoline. but thats some way off. of course there are the zealots who want to ban petrol cars period by such and such a date. but i think they will be regarded as extremists for a good while yet.

but..... i do think though we might be going from one energy crisis to another.
a hydrocarbon energy shortage/difficulty to an electricity energy crisis? i seriously doubt there will be enough electricity to go around once the car fleet does gain momentum and electric take up gets a head of steam. i can see that one happening.

anyway onward.

[Superhawk996]

One person's "degrade" may be another's "improve."

This is all I've been trying to say all along. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/chair.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

Otherwise, we wouldn't be discussing how to degrade the range of a 914. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/lol-2.gif)

[wonkipop]

If you want an electric Porsche you can get a Taycan…

Nah, This is the electric Porsche for me (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/newsroom.porsche.com-20845-1656371515.1.jpg)

don't forget his tiger tank proposal/prototype.
probably would have worked better at hauling 70 tons of king tiger than the poor old maybach V12?

[bbrock]

but..... i do think though we might be going from one energy crisis to another.
a hydrocarbon energy shortage/difficulty to an electricity energy crisis? i seriously doubt there will be enough electricity to go around once the car fleet does gain momentum and electric take up gets a head of steam. i can see that one happening.

anyway onward.

I thought this was a good discussion of that question. Of course, if we could just get over irrational fears of nuclear power, we could save ourselves a lot of headache.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7dfyG6FXsUU

[wonkipop]

but..... i do think though we might be going from one energy crisis to another.
a hydrocarbon energy shortage/difficulty to an electricity energy crisis? i seriously doubt there will be enough electricity to go around once the car fleet does gain momentum and electric take up gets a head of steam. i can see that one happening.

anyway onward.

I thought this was a good discussion of that question. Of course, if we could just get over irrational fears of nuclear power, we could save ourselves a lot of headache.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7dfyG6FXsUU

as you probably know bbrock australia has a hysterical fear of nuclear power second only to new zealand.

but.........oddly its suddenly being openly canvassed in public discussions after half a century as a taboo subject.

the recent controversial cancelation of a french conventional powered submarine contract (probably ignored by the press in the usa since austalia is irrelevant as a country) was followed by an announcement by the govt that we would be purchasing US nuclear submarines and that US nuclear submarines would be admitted into naval ports in australia. of course US nuclear subs have been going into secure naval ports in western australia for years (the indian ocean fleet) but no one talks about that.

so ........... the subject has been gently introduced.

the logic would be - children, you can't have your tesla for desert until you eat all your plutonium.

[wonkipop]

but..... i do think though we might be going from one energy crisis to another.
a hydrocarbon energy shortage/difficulty to an electricity energy crisis? i seriously doubt there will be enough electricity to go around once the car fleet does gain momentum and electric take up gets a head of steam. i can see that one happening.

anyway onward.

I thought this was a good discussion of that question. Of course, if we could just get over irrational fears of nuclear power, we could save ourselves a lot of headache.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7dfyG6FXsUU

yeah that is a good discussion.

i especially like that he touched on the ability to find a place to charge the car.
ie apartment dwellers who park in the street.
right now a lot of electric take up is by folks in aus who live in stand alone houses - its no issue to plug in the cord. but i have noticed all sorts of ramshackle set ups starting to happen in the inner city areas where relatively wealthy middle class people live in terrace houses. i think you guys call them row houses. people park in the street there. and they have been running cords across the sidewalk from their houses to their new teslas.
with silly little safety stripped cover boards over them on the sidewalk. all of which is illegal. won't be long before someone trips up and the legals come in like vultures and there will be a crackdown.

there will definitely be power rationing going on - in the sense at least of forcing folks to use obscure times of the night and timers as well as incentives to charge their cars.

as well as thinking of some imaginative ways to build a variation on the petrol station as a charging station. for folks with cars that live in the street. i imagine those urban charging stations might be multi storey structures a bit like parking garages.

i guess i think of these things because of my line of work. there will be changes to the urban landscape to deal with the new cars as they populate.

one thing i don't see happening is that people give up cars or do the car share rental thing. we have a few zealots bashing that idea down here. i just can't see that flying.
the car has been an amazing tool freeing individuals and i think that will be the one constant. folks are not going to give up on the idea of their car, or owning it.
but i could be wrong.

[flipb]

Another thing that hasn't been mentioned in this thread is maintenance and dependability.

How much time do most of us spend chasing vacuum leaks, bad injectors, carb rebuilds, fuel issues, valve adjustments, oil changes, etc. etc.

All of that goes away with an EV. I've lived with one as my DD for 6 years now and while the torque and practicality are great, one of the most remarkable things in retrospect is that I don't have to ever think about maintenance. Once in those five years, I needed the 12v battery replaced. And there have been plenty of minor inconvenience fixes, most due to Mr. Musk's tendency toward gadgetry (damn retractable door handles). Drive all day, come home, plug in, go to bed, repeat.

Right now, my 914 is sitting in the garage because it's suddenly decided to only run on 3 cylinders. If it were as turnkey as the Tesla -- with moderately more torque and imperceptibly (to me) compromised handling -- it would get driven a hell of a lot more.

[sechszylinder]

From my point of view its complete nonesense to convert a 914 into a golfcart only due to the fact that it is technically possible.
The 914 has been designed for an ICE, all the design of the car is based on that idea.
Maybe EVs are the future and even if this is going to become reality within the next 20 years, why should i convert one of these nice cars into something which performs not like the real thing?
EVs suffer from battery weight and thats the reason why EVs need to be carefully designed and outlined, something that will never succeed by converting ICE based cars.

So, enjoy your cars running on real fuel as long as we‘re able to buy it. Enjoy the handling, the sound, the smell, the acceleration and the remembrance of a better time.

Or, buy a Tesla, or should I say, buy a VW, since I‘m german ?

BR

Benno

[930cabman]

Another thing that hasn't been mentioned in this thread is maintenance and dependability.

How much time do most of us spend chasing vacuum leaks, bad injectors, carb rebuilds, fuel issues, valve adjustments, oil changes, etc. etc.

All of that goes away with an EV. I've lived with one as my DD for 6 years now and while the torque and practicality are great, one of the most remarkable things in retrospect is that I don't have to ever think about maintenance. Once in those five years, I needed the 12v battery replaced. And there have been plenty of minor inconvenience fixes, most due to Mr. Musk's tendency toward gadgetry (damn retractable door handles). Drive all day, come home, plug in, go to bed, repeat.

Right now, my 914 is sitting in the garage because it's suddenly decided to only run on 3 cylinders. If it were as turnkey as the Tesla -- with moderately more torque and imperceptibly (to me) compromised handling -- it would get driven a hell of a lot more.

hardly an equal comparison, a newer EV to a near 50 years old sporting car. I am still voting for our ICE's at least until sometime the technology catches up.

And if I may make a minor correction "Drive all day" I was unaware any EV's had this capability?

Also, great thread to get one's feathers ruffled

[Superhawk996]

Another thing that hasn't been mentioned in this thread is maintenance and dependability. . . . .

All of that goes away with an EV.

Please report back in 50 years (maybe sooner) when IGBT's and batteries start failing.

[Chris914n6]

Another thing that hasn't been mentioned in this thread is maintenance and dependability.

How much time do most of us spend chasing vacuum leaks, bad injectors, carb rebuilds, fuel issues, valve adjustments, oil changes, etc. etc.

All of that goes away with an EV. I've lived with one as my DD for 6 years now and while the torque and practicality are great, one of the most remarkable things in retrospect is that I don't have to ever think about maintenance. Once in those five years, I needed the 12v battery replaced. And there have been plenty of minor inconvenience fixes, most due to Mr. Musk's tendency toward gadgetry (damn retractable door handles). Drive all day, come home, plug in, go to bed, repeat.

Right now, my 914 is sitting in the garage because it's suddenly decided to only run on 3 cylinders. If it were as turnkey as the Tesla -- with moderately more torque and imperceptibly (to me) compromised handling -- it would get driven a hell of a lot more.

Then spend the money/time to make it a brand new car like the Tesla....

Eventually the Tesla will need parts. The screen, cameras, blower motor & resistors, relays, window regulator, water pump, axle boots, seals, bushings, bearings... all stuff from the standard parts suppliers. Then there is the heater and comp that will eventually wear out. Worried yet (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[flipb]

hardly an equal comparison, a newer EV to a near 50 years old sporting car. I am still voting for our ICE's at least until sometime the technology catches up.

Definitely fair. But a brand-new EV requires less maintenance than a brand-new ICE vehicle, too. Manufacturers who require regular maintenance on their EV models are doing so for the revenue, not because it's technically required.

And if I may make a minor correction "Drive all day" I was unaware any EV's had this capability?

A typical day for me is 40-50 miles of running around. Maybe 70 if I really have to go somewhere out of the way. My 9 year old base-model Tesla has a usable range of about 180mi. A brand new one comes with 400 miles of range. How many people drive more than 400mi/day, other than cargo delivery? Lucid Air has a 500mi range. Plenty of affordable EVs can run 200-275mi/day. Some real-world data on daily driving distances here: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/artic...191261516309067


Look, I can't speak with authority about how to shave 3/4 of a second off your lap time, or how to rebuild a carb. But I do have a pretty solid amount of experience living with an EV as my daily driver. It's hilarious to me that people who lack this experience are trying to explain to me the deficiencies of EVs.

[Superhawk996]

And if I may make a minor correction "Drive all day" I was unaware any EV's had this capability?

10 mph * 10 hrs in LA traffic = 100 miles. Drive all day. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)