The Red and the Black, question about keys |
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The Red and the Black, question about keys |
Type 47 |
Jan 21 2023, 11:24 AM
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#1
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 783 Joined: 1-June 10 From: St. Louis, MO Member No.: 11,790 Region Association: None |
I guess it's been a while since I had a 914 with a set of factory keys.
I thought the black key was a master for everything and the red was just doors and ignition. But when I went to order some blanks, it indicated that was the opposite. |
GregAmy |
Jan 21 2023, 11:31 AM
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#2
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Advanced Member Group: Members Posts: 2,308 Joined: 22-February 13 From: Middletown CT Member No.: 15,565 Region Association: North East States |
http://914world.com/specs/rekey.php
Search the page for "Here are the keys, so you can see the difference. The valet key has 2 slots, where the normal key has only one." (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads/post-180-1168473683.jpg) |
SirAndy |
Jan 21 2023, 11:40 AM
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#3
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Resident German Group: Admin Posts: 41,658 Joined: 21-January 03 From: Oakland, Kalifornia Member No.: 179 Region Association: Northern California |
Hmmm, i always thought the red one was the valet key.
But now looking at the "valet" wafer with the extra tab, it would seem that the only key to work with such a wafer is the one with the two grooves. In that case, wouldn't the black key be unable to open that lock? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/popcorn[1].gif) |
GregAmy |
Jan 21 2023, 11:50 AM
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#4
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Advanced Member Group: Members Posts: 2,308 Joined: 22-February 13 From: Middletown CT Member No.: 15,565 Region Association: North East States |
@TheCabinetmaker ...
Tumblers work by displacing individual wafers (other designs use double pins) a specific distance so that they no longer lie across the interface of the inner and outer bores of the lock. If that correct displacement does not happen then a wafer stays across the bore, restricting the tumbler from rotating. The extra slot cut in the red key does NOT engage the extra internal corner of the valet wafer, therefore NOT displacing it. Since that valet wafer is NOT displaced, it restricts the tumbler from rotating. Therefore, the red key is the valet key due to its extra slot not displacing the valet wafer. It's possible that a supplier of the blanks has that crossed, but it can be visually identified with that photo above. |
rudedude |
Jan 21 2023, 12:29 PM
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#5
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 510 Joined: 1-January 05 From: minneapolis, mn Member No.: 3,387 Region Association: Upper MidWest |
Which position does the valet wafer go in or does it not matter?
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sixaddict |
Jan 21 2023, 12:52 PM
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#6
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 804 Joined: 22-January 09 From: Panama City Beach, FL Member No.: 9,961 Region Association: South East States |
GA
That link is really helpful……still can see it is tricky. Thinking you need to give yourself credit for tackling this project. Cheers |
SirAndy |
Jan 21 2023, 01:22 PM
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#7
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Resident German Group: Admin Posts: 41,658 Joined: 21-January 03 From: Oakland, Kalifornia Member No.: 179 Region Association: Northern California |
The extra slot cut in the red key does NOT engage the extra internal corner of the valet wafer, therefore NOT displacing it. Since that wafer is NOT displaced, the wafer restricts the tumbler from rotating. I stand eduficated! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif) |
dr914@autoatlanta.com |
Jan 21 2023, 01:43 PM
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#8
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914 Guru Group: Members Posts: 7,873 Joined: 3-January 07 From: atlanta georgia Member No.: 7,418 Region Association: None |
yes black for everything, red for doors and ignition. So many of the locks have been changed over the years though, that who knows what fits what!!!
I guess it's been a while since I had a 914 with a set of factory keys. I thought the black key was a master for everything and the red was just doors and ignition. But when I went to order some blanks, it indicated that was the opposite. |
TheCabinetmaker |
Jan 21 2023, 02:07 PM
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#9
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I drive my car everyday Group: Members Posts: 8,300 Joined: 8-May 03 From: Tulsa, Ok. Member No.: 666 |
@rudedude it replaces any #2 wafer.
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rudedude |
Jan 21 2023, 04:31 PM
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#10
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 510 Joined: 1-January 05 From: minneapolis, mn Member No.: 3,387 Region Association: Upper MidWest |
Thanks!
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Type 47 |
Jan 21 2023, 06:54 PM
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#11
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 783 Joined: 1-June 10 From: St. Louis, MO Member No.: 11,790 Region Association: None |
yes black for everything, red for doors and ignition. So many of the locks have been changed over the years though, that who knows what fits what!!! I guess it's been a while since I had a 914 with a set of factory keys. I thought the black key was a master for everything and the red was just doors and ignition. But when I went to order some blanks, it indicated that was the opposite. Dr. thanks for your straightforward answer to what I thought was a dumb question. I mis-read the description, thanks for making me look again. You are right on about the "who knows what fits" comment. My steel "red", "black" keys don't work in the rear trunk. So, I guess this is the perfect example of "there are no dumb questions". If Sir Andy has learned something from my question, I will not hesitate in the future, the proposing of inquiries. I find it fantastic that a simple question can get so technical!!! You guys' rock! |
stoneman30hotmail |
Jan 22 2023, 12:22 PM
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#12
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Member Group: Members Posts: 80 Joined: 10-September 22 From: Greensboro, NC Member No.: 26,834 Region Association: South East States |
I have a mess. The car came with two red keys and one metal one, which after this thread I realize in now the main key. But the red and metal ones are cut different. The red ones open the driver door but don't work the ignition. Neither key works the passenger door, front or rear trunks nor glove box. The front hood has half a key stuck in it. I hope to get all these pulled out to mix wafers and match the red ones at least for ignition and both doors.
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ClayPerrine |
Jan 22 2023, 01:41 PM
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#13
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Life's been good to me so far..... Group: Admin Posts: 15,485 Joined: 11-September 03 From: Hurst, TX. Member No.: 1,143 Region Association: NineFourteenerVille |
From the factory, the black key was for everything, and the red key was for valet use.
However... You can use the red key for everything on the car if you have the locks keyed that way. I did that on my six conversion so we could distinguish the keys between the two 914s we owned. Then we got a third 914-6 and that just screwed up the whole plan. If you want to have all of your locks match, just buy a set of rekeyed locks and handles from @thecabinetmaker . It is possible to do it yourself, but Kurt has all the parts and wafers necessary to do it right. |
TheCabinetmaker |
Jan 22 2023, 02:51 PM
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#14
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I drive my car everyday Group: Members Posts: 8,300 Joined: 8-May 03 From: Tulsa, Ok. Member No.: 666 |
I have a mess. The car came with two red keys and one metal one, which after this thread I realize in now the main key. But the red and metal ones are cut different. The red ones open the driver door but don't work the ignition. Neither key works the passenger door, front or rear trunks nor glove box. The front hood has half a key stuck in it. I hope to get all these pulled out to mix wafers and match the red ones at least for ignition and both doors. All three of those keys are the valet key. Your driver's door handle was replaced at some time. Factory door handle replacements come with two red keys. They will not open the front trunk, rear trunk, or glove box, nor the passenger door handle. I agree that you have a mess. But it's easily fixable. |
TheCabinetmaker |
Jan 22 2023, 02:55 PM
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#15
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I drive my car everyday Group: Members Posts: 8,300 Joined: 8-May 03 From: Tulsa, Ok. Member No.: 666 |
@clay Perrine. I usually do not key for the valet key unless an owner wants it for originality. Having a valet key makes no sense anymore. No one is going to give a parking lot jockey the keys to their 914. We park them ourselves!
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930cabman |
Jan 22 2023, 04:16 PM
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#16
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Advanced Member Group: Members Posts: 3,099 Joined: 12-November 20 From: Buffalo Member No.: 24,877 Region Association: North East States |
@clay Perrine. I usually do not key for the valet key unless an owner wants it for originality. Having a valet key makes no sense anymore. No one is going to give a parking lot jockey the keys to their 914. We park them ourselves! I won't let a valet park my F150 |
ClayPerrine |
Jan 22 2023, 04:30 PM
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#17
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Life's been good to me so far..... Group: Admin Posts: 15,485 Joined: 11-September 03 From: Hurst, TX. Member No.: 1,143 Region Association: NineFourteenerVille |
@clay Perrine. I usually do not key for the valet key unless an owner wants it for originality. Having a valet key makes no sense anymore. No one is going to give a parking lot jockey the keys to their 914. We park them ourselves! I had the red valet keyed as the master key for everything in my Big Six. That way I can tell it apart from the key for the other 914s. Plus I like the color red. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) |
914werke |
Jan 22 2023, 04:43 PM
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#18
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"I got blisters on me fingers" Group: Members Posts: 10,102 Joined: 22-March 03 From: USofA Member No.: 453 Region Association: Pacific Northwest |
When you see a lot of 914's its commonplace to see all manner of lock mess, keys for different doors & ignitions are the obvious ones, but VW ignition tumblers are also pretty standard.
Anytime I encounter a multi-key mess I try to correct it. Including replacing cheaper metal repop keys with rubber heads including the valet. While its true that the instance where the valet keys usefulness has kinda passed by, it was still an original part of the car as delivered. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) |
914043 |
Jan 22 2023, 05:04 PM
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#19
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Member Group: Members Posts: 87 Joined: 2-April 19 From: California Member No.: 23,007 Region Association: Central California |
I remember reading somewhere that the black and red keys are cut the same but because the red key has an extra groove it won't activate the valet wafer in the tumbler, protecting the two trunks and the glove box. ??
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FlacaProductions |
Jan 22 2023, 05:09 PM
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#20
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 1,595 Joined: 24-November 17 From: LA Member No.: 21,628 Region Association: Southern California |
I like to get stuff like this figured out because if it's supposed to work that way, it should work that way.
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