Synthetic Fuels, Interesting Article Options

[Jim C]

https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/news/why-e-...c3f19b96ac91939

[Spoke]

Interesting read. The article also links to another article on hydrogen-powered EV.

Battery EVs are gaining traction but it worries me when Govt's choose a winner in any field. Hydrogen EVs and synthetic fuels are just some of the new technologies which may prove viable. Because of their short range and need to have equipment at home (fast charger) for a battery EV makes it not interesting to me at this time.

I work remotely on a consistent basis and have a Condo for remote work. I have an assigned parking spot in a parking lot with no electricity within 50 ft of my spot so no charging at night.

Why Are Hydrogen-Powered Vehicles Getting So Much Attention Lately?

[bbrock]

Well, there are major challenges with hydrogen that will have to be overcome and unfortunately, we are in a race against time. See for example:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zklo4Z1SqkE

[wonkipop]

Well, there are major challenges with hydrogen that will have to be overcome and unfortunately, we are in a race against time. See for example:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zklo4Z1SqkE

its not essentially all that different to LPG.
the pressures are higher, yes. quite a bit higher.
but as far as i know toyota have already solved that design problem in terms of very high pressure fuel lines and fuel tanks. the tank is carbon fibre.

as per LPG the engine is essentially actually still a petrol engine design.
its really just the injectors, throttle body, fuel lines and tank.
cold start would be an issue as per LPG but probably the tech is all sorted on that front.

in terms of infrastructure you don't transport the hydrogen.
you make it on site at the gas station itself.
with electricity.
thats where the major investment is.
but it has benefits in that you can rebuild gas stations as hydrogen plants.
the equipment involved is not large in terms of square metres.
and you can in a country like australia run the plant off solar pv cells.
but i'd have to find out more on electrical load to make hydrogen versus production capability on site for it to be self sustaining or off grid.
but theoretically that bit is every bit as green as an electric car.

its already being discussed very seriously in australia.
and its happening on the ground in queensland, one of australia's states.
both govt. public transport buses, mining industry bus fleets and private operator bus fleets.

https://www.australianmining.com.au/news/hy...or-bowen-basin/

it will happen here.

i think electric cars will dominate in urban areas where you can arrange for convenient charging which takes extended time.
but heavy transport and country areas we are going to see hydrogen.

both require big efforts in infrastructure change.

i foresee multi storey carpark type buildings for charging cars in high density urban areas without off street car parking. there is a lot of that in australia.
and i see gas stations transitioning with LPG being replaced by on site hydrogen manufacture and continueing to sell petroleum fuels during a phase out changeover period.

[bkrantz]

Interesting read. The article also links to another article on hydrogen-powered EV.

Battery EVs are gaining traction but it worries me when Govt's choose a winner in any field. Hydrogen EVs and synthetic fuels are just some of the new technologies which may prove viable. Because of their short range and need to have equipment at home (fast charger) for a battery EV makes it not interesting to me at this time.

I work remotely on a consistent basis and have a Condo for remote work. I have an assigned parking spot in a parking lot with no electricity within 50 ft of my spot so no charging at night.

Why Are Hydrogen-Powered Vehicles Getting So Much Attention Lately?

Not to get too political, but while choosing winners through subsidies and preferential treatment is inappropriate (IMO), choosing losers and then banning them, and eliminating free choice is inexcusable.

[bbrock]

Well, there are major challenges with hydrogen that will have to be overcome and unfortunately, we are in a race against time. See for example:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zklo4Z1SqkE

its not essentially all that different to LPG.
the pressures are higher, yes. quite a bit higher.
but as far as i know toyota have already solved that design problem in terms of very high pressure fuel lines and fuel tanks. the tank is carbon fibre.

The problems isn't the pressure, it is the production. Producing hydrogen with renewable energy is very expensive and producing it with fossil fuels winds up about the same emissions as just burning natural gas directly. I have no doubt we could eventually make it work, but we don't have time to keep fiddle farting around. I'm not against hydrogen at all. I want to see it work, but there are some major hurdles.

Just to be an ass, I'm going to say it first. People think water emission is a great thing and it is, but as an ecologist I'm just going to say if the world's fleet converted to hydrogen, water emissions WILL become a pollution. That much water vapor will screw with weather patterns and play heck with some ecosystems. It's an easy problem to fix and will increase supplies of fresh water in the bargain so a win win. But we are humans so will just spew it out tailpipes until it becomes a big problem and then gripe about having to capture and dump it for collection at the filling station.

[wonkipop]

Well, there are major challenges with hydrogen that will have to be overcome and unfortunately, we are in a race against time. See for example:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zklo4Z1SqkE

its not essentially all that different to LPG.
the pressures are higher, yes. quite a bit higher.
but as far as i know toyota have already solved that design problem in terms of very high pressure fuel lines and fuel tanks. the tank is carbon fibre.

The problems isn't the pressure, it is the production. Producing hydrogen with renewable energy is very expensive and producing it with fossil fuels winds up about the same emissions as just burning natural gas directly. I have no doubt we could eventually make it work, but we don't have time to keep fiddle farting around. I'm not against hydrogen at all. I want to see it work, but there are some major hurdles.

Just to be an ass, I'm going to say it first. People think water emission is a great thing and it is, but as an ecologist I'm just going to say if the world's fleet converted to hydrogen, water emissions WILL become a pollution. That much water vapor will screw with weather patterns and play heck with some ecosystems. It's an easy problem to fix and will increase supplies of fresh water in the bargain so a win win. But we are humans so will just spew it out tailpipes until it becomes a big problem and then gripe about having to capture and dump it for collection at the filling station.

yes all true.

i think the private bus company in queensland is doing the hydrogen production with electrical energy produced on site with PV cells. probably a lot of PV cells?
the sun shines very frequently there! he is out the back of brisbane somewhere over the dividing range where it is very sunny all the time.

you may well have a very good point about water vapour. there will be a lot of it!!!!!!
could be a very humid world. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

its probably going to be a goer for heavy industrial machinery/mining machinery.
and heavy transport here at minimum.

the other guy heavily investing in hydrogen power for his mining equipment is Andrew (Twiggy) Forest from Western Australia. he seems to be deadly serious about it.

[Jim C]

It seems the ecological downsides from hydrogen fuels and electric vehicle manufacture and support can be eliminated or minimized with syn fuels as discussed in the article. The problem is someone has already declared electric the "winner." States like CA and its ban on ICE just further cement electric in place. It's not the combustor that is the "problem" it's the fuel.

[JmuRiz]

I love it when companies like Porsche put their money where their mouth is and think of something outside of the box and give it a go.

They have their feet in all kinds of tech to see what works best for them, as a customer company and a race team. Remember when they gave a they flywheel style hybrid system a try. Testing in a race environment like the 24hr races (Lemans, Daytona, 'ring) is a great real world test bed.