Parking Brake, Is it broken? |
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Parking Brake, Is it broken? |
DennisV |
Feb 17 2023, 07:29 PM
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#1
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Member Group: Members Posts: 468 Joined: 8-August 20 From: Santa Rosa, CA Member No.: 24,575 Region Association: Northern California |
Is this the natural position for a parking break button when the cable is disconnected? If not, can someone suggest what repair is needed?
I would test it myself, but this is how I found it and the brakes are disassembled. Thank you. |
Cairo94507 |
Feb 18 2023, 08:38 AM
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#2
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Michael Group: Members Posts: 9,759 Joined: 1-November 08 From: Auburn, CA Member No.: 9,712 Region Association: Northern California |
No, that has unscrewed itself; if I am remembering correctly. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)
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gms |
Feb 18 2023, 10:33 AM
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#3
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Advanced Member Group: Members Posts: 2,695 Joined: 12-March 04 From: Chicagoland Member No.: 1,785 Region Association: Upper MidWest |
here is an exploded view
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fixer34 |
Feb 18 2023, 06:51 PM
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#4
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 1,085 Joined: 16-September 14 From: Chicago area Member No.: 17,908 Region Association: Upper MidWest |
You didn't say what year for the car. The very early handbrake levers had a pivot in the middle of the arm (that version not shown on the diagram).
In any case, no the button/spring should not be out that far. I'm guessing the tab (the diagram #3 is pointing right at it) either broke, or the ratchet mechanism inside the lever at the main pivot came loose. Take the driver seat out and pull the handle off the pivot. Use the diagram to see how it goes together and figure out what is wrong. |
DennisV |
Feb 20 2023, 06:13 AM
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#5
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Member Group: Members Posts: 468 Joined: 8-August 20 From: Santa Rosa, CA Member No.: 24,575 Region Association: Northern California |
You didn't say what year for the car. It is a 1970 914-6. I was hoping that the fact that the brakes were disconnected had just released some tension that is needed to keep everything compressed. I'm hearing that's not the case and I need to look for another cause. |
fixer34 |
Feb 20 2023, 06:08 PM
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#6
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 1,085 Joined: 16-September 14 From: Chicago area Member No.: 17,908 Region Association: Upper MidWest |
You didn't say what year for the car. It is a 1970 914-6. I was hoping that the fact that the brakes were disconnected had just released some tension that is needed to keep everything compressed. I'm hearing that's not the case and I need to look for another cause. That would be a yes. I have a '70 -6 also, did all the cables last year. With everything in the brake handle in place, the knob and shaft should not be sticking out even with no cables attached. |
DennisV |
Apr 8 2023, 07:38 PM
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#7
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Member Group: Members Posts: 468 Joined: 8-August 20 From: Santa Rosa, CA Member No.: 24,575 Region Association: Northern California |
Take the driver seat out and pull the handle off the pivot. Use the diagram to see how it goes together and figure out what is wrong. I finally had time to take a trip back to the car. With the seat out, I am embarrassed to say I am still a bit stumped. I thought unclipping and rotating the cable clasp would allow me to drive the pin out and remove the handle. I doesn't want to be driven out with a punch. Prying with a screwdriver any harder I suspect will break it. What am I missing? |
DennisV |
Apr 8 2023, 07:45 PM
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#8
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Member Group: Members Posts: 468 Joined: 8-August 20 From: Santa Rosa, CA Member No.: 24,575 Region Association: Northern California |
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ChrisFoley |
Apr 9 2023, 03:46 AM
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#9
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I am Tangerine Racing Group: Members Posts: 7,925 Joined: 29-January 03 From: Bolton, CT Member No.: 209 Region Association: None |
Its not unusual for the pin to become stuck with rust in the end of the cable. Removal can be tricky since it's hard to provide support to the frame to drive out the pin. Disconnecting the cable at the rear so you can remove the handle from the car may be your best bet.
The rod looks ok. Its usually the little flat spring at the end which breaks off next to where it's welded onto the long rod. I make a fix for that. Where are the ratchet and pawl pieces? Parts 5 and 16 in the diagram. They're critical to operation of the assembly. |
fixer34 |
Apr 9 2023, 06:51 AM
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#10
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 1,085 Joined: 16-September 14 From: Chicago area Member No.: 17,908 Region Association: Upper MidWest |
Its not unusual for the pin to become stuck with rust in the end of the cable. Removal can be tricky since it's hard to provide support to the frame to drive out the pin. Disconnecting the cable at the rear so you can remove the handle from the car may be your best bet. The rod looks ok. Its usually the little flat spring at the end which breaks off next to where it's welded onto the long rod. I make a fix for that. Where are the ratchet and pawl pieces? Parts 5 and 16 in the diagram. They're critical to operation of the assembly. Yep, there are a couple pieces missing. One of those engages with the end of the rod (not the spring flap) and that is what prevents the button from extending out like yours. |
DennisV |
Apr 11 2023, 04:30 PM
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#11
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Member Group: Members Posts: 468 Joined: 8-August 20 From: Santa Rosa, CA Member No.: 24,575 Region Association: Northern California |
Where are the ratchet and pawl pieces? Parts 5 and 16 in the diagram. They're critical to operation of the assembly. Thanks for mentioning these. The ratchet came out during disassembly and is sitting in the floor. The pawl I believe is still captured in the handle. |
DennisV |
Apr 11 2023, 05:29 PM
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#12
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Member Group: Members Posts: 468 Joined: 8-August 20 From: Santa Rosa, CA Member No.: 24,575 Region Association: Northern California |
Yep, there are a couple pieces missing. One of those engages with the end of the rod (not the spring flap) and that is what prevents the button from extending out like yours. I am still lacking a good working example to reference. It appears to me that the pushrod has sheared off, and that there is a severely bent over metal rod. Perhaps it is #7 Clinch pin A 4H 11 X 16 which seems NLA from anywhere? |
Superhawk996 |
Apr 11 2023, 06:12 PM
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#13
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914 Guru Group: Members Posts: 5,822 Joined: 25-August 18 From: Woods of N. Idaho Member No.: 22,428 Region Association: Galt's Gulch |
Yep, there are a couple pieces missing. One of those engages with the end of the rod (not the spring flap) and that is what prevents the button from extending out like yours. I am still lacking a good working example to reference. It appears to me that the pushrod has sheared off, and that there is a severely bent over metal rod. Perhaps it is #7 Clinch pin A 4H 11 X 16 which seems NLA from anywhere? I don’t have access to my early part. Yes, that bent pin is the problem IMHO That pin retains the rod and another pin on the lower section retains the pawl if I remember correctly. Remove the bent pin. At that point you can assemble all the parts and it should become pretty clear how it all fits and works. There are threads here on the early handbrake. Site 914world.com early park brake repair Vary the search term after the site name - you’ll find what you seek Edit: upon closer review I’m not sure about the pawl. Is the part you’re pointing at shaped like a little pointed gear tooth - is it swinging freely in the lower portion of the handle? Hard to tell from view you posted. And using the search term above, I found this picture of the rod, that you can use to compare to your rod. Upon closer review - it does look like there is a portion of the flat spring steel broken off. This flat portion is where it commonly breaks from misuse Wish I had my parts in front of me but alas, they are buried in storage . . . Somewhere. |
Superhawk996 |
Apr 11 2023, 06:33 PM
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#14
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914 Guru Group: Members Posts: 5,822 Joined: 25-August 18 From: Woods of N. Idaho Member No.: 22,428 Region Association: Galt's Gulch |
AA might have parts for early levers available or keep an eye on classifieds. However when early levers show up they often have a broken rod since it was the common failure mode.
I suspect you want originality for a /6. Otherwise, replace with a late handbrake and be done with it. The early lever is novel but was easy to break by abuse and often resulted in drive away with the brake still applied since the lever wasn’t sticking up when you get in the car. |
Superhawk996 |
Apr 11 2023, 07:21 PM
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#15
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914 Guru Group: Members Posts: 5,822 Joined: 25-August 18 From: Woods of N. Idaho Member No.: 22,428 Region Association: Galt's Gulch |
Disregard the fact that this lever was kludged & welded
Pawl circled in red as it engages the ratchet / sector Note: As I’m going through the threads to remind myself how this was assembled, there are all sort of jury rig fixes proposed and executed over the years - beware of these. |
DennisV |
Apr 12 2023, 09:39 AM
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#16
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Member Group: Members Posts: 468 Joined: 8-August 20 From: Santa Rosa, CA Member No.: 24,575 Region Association: Northern California |
Pawl circled in red as it engages the ratchet / sector Thank you for the suggestions and pointers. I think I am getting a handle on this (bad joke intended).
Outstanding questions:
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Superhawk996 |
Apr 12 2023, 11:11 AM
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#17
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914 Guru Group: Members Posts: 5,822 Joined: 25-August 18 From: Woods of N. Idaho Member No.: 22,428 Region Association: Galt's Gulch |
Outstanding questions:
#1 yes use gentle heat to soften its grip to the metal arm while twisting and pulling. URO and/or AA have replacement grips. I really wish I had my part in front of me and/or a better memory. I think on #2 that those threads are wrong and/or were the jury rigged solutions. I don’t recall there being any separate spring. If I recall the pawl engages the ratchet sector and the tension in the cable provided by the springs on the caliper levers is what holds the pawl in contact with the ratchet when under load. Then when the lever is lifted, the rod and the flat piece of the rod engages the pawl to release the pawl from the ratchet sector. What causes the failure of the flat metal piece was depressing the button before lifting the lever. If I recall, that leads to the flat portion getting bent and jammed without contacting the pawl correctly. The other contributing factor was not lifting the lever slightly to take the load off the pawl - this resulted in the button and the flat metal piece being jammed into the pawl and loaded up more than it could take as it tries to push the pawl out of engagement with the ratchet while the cable was holding everything under load. Long way to try try to say & to convince my memory that there wasn’t a separate spring that was missing from PET. The part your calling the clinch pin is easily found in hardware supply houses - just use a small Clevis pin and clip - or go whole hog and fabricate your own riivet and staking tool to make it look just like OEM. The whole early park brake lever is pretty neat how it all works. Very Germanic. It’s a shame it was sort of fragile and so prone to failure when ham fisted, more force is better, Americans got their hands on it. When I had my Miata, my dumb ass friends (said endearingly - (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) ) would always try pressing the park brake release button before lifting the lever slightly to take the tension off the pawl. Would result in a loud pop and then the lever releasing too quickly. Some things never change (IMG:style_emoticons/default/headbang.gif) but the Japanese anticipated this sort of use and the lever always held up despite the abuse. |
DennisV |
Apr 26 2023, 02:53 PM
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#18
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Member Group: Members Posts: 468 Joined: 8-August 20 From: Santa Rosa, CA Member No.: 24,575 Region Association: Northern California |
Upon closer review - it does look like there is a portion of the flat spring steel broken off. This flat portion is where it commonly breaks from misuse For anyone else that may run into this, Superhawk996 correctly identified a broken piece. Luckily, a replacement was available from Auto Atlanta as it is otherwise NLA. Here is a photo of the replacement above and the broken below one below. I may have found a cheap and readily available solution for the also broken "clinch pin". I'll report back on that once I can confirm it works. |
914Sixer |
Apr 27 2023, 07:36 PM
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#19
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914 Guru Group: Members Posts: 8,882 Joined: 17-January 05 From: San Angelo Texas Member No.: 3,457 Region Association: Southwest Region |
Dennis,
AA has NOS bottom pieces on Ebay for $29 |
DennisV |
May 22 2023, 09:08 AM
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#20
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Member Group: Members Posts: 468 Joined: 8-August 20 From: Santa Rosa, CA Member No.: 24,575 Region Association: Northern California |
The part your calling the clinch pin is easily found in hardware supply houses - just use a small Clevis pin and clip - or go whole hog and fabricate your own riivet and staking tool to make it look just like OEM. I am just using the terminology from the parts catalog. I have run into a lot of instances where the common names don't match and I've confused myself, and sometimes others. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) Good suggestion on the hardware store. I found this "tension pin" at the local Ace. It fit great in terms of diameter and length. I flared the ends with a punch. Maybe this will help someone else down the road. Time will tell if it stays put. |
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