Home  |  Forums  |  914 Info  |  Blogs
 
914World.com - The fastest growing online 914 community!
 
Porsche, and the Porsche crest are registered trademarks of Dr. Ing. h.c. F. Porsche AG. This site is not affiliated with Porsche in any way.
Its only purpose is to provide an online forum for car enthusiasts. All other trademarks are property of their respective owners.
 

Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

3 Pages V  1 2 3 >  
Reply to this topicStart new topic
> 1976 Is it a 49 state or Cali car?
gnomefabtech
post Mar 13 2023, 06:25 PM
Post #1


Member
**

Group: Members
Posts: 69
Joined: 27-December 22
From: Los Angeles
Member No.: 27,063
Region Association: None



Car came from Nevada but I can't tell if it was originally a California car. It still has injection but doesn't have a cat or smog pump. Doesn't look like it ever had either but I'm wondering since I'm going to try and register it here in California. Thanks in advance!!

Here is the Vin:

Attached Image Attached Image Attached Image
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
JeffBowlsby
post Mar 13 2023, 06:43 PM
Post #2


914 Wiring Harnesses
*****

Group: Members
Posts: 8,417
Joined: 7-January 03
From: San Ramon CA
Member No.: 104
Region Association: None



All 75s and 76s should have a smog pump and air injection, check your heads for the air inlets or plugs in their place.

https://bowlsby.net/914/Classic/Emissions.htm See chart at bottom pf page.

A 49 state 76 would not have EGR or a CAT, but a CA-model would.

Does your FI harness have the branch (6-pole connector, near the battery) for a speed limiter box?

Still have the drivers side clear windshield label? That may tell if you if its a CA model or not.
User is online!Profile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
rgalla9146
post Mar 13 2023, 07:24 PM
Post #3


Advanced Member
****

Group: Members
Posts: 4,516
Joined: 23-November 05
From: Paramus NJ
Member No.: 5,176
Region Association: None



A 1976 California car will have a EGR lamp on the dash and a EGR reset box under the
passenger footrest
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
gnomefabtech
post Mar 13 2023, 08:27 PM
Post #4


Member
**

Group: Members
Posts: 69
Joined: 27-December 22
From: Los Angeles
Member No.: 27,063
Region Association: None



Thanks. I'll be able to look at the car more this weekend and see what's missing. Might be a bit of a project to get it Cali legal.
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
L-Jet914
post Mar 13 2023, 08:29 PM
Post #5


Member
**

Group: Members
Posts: 233
Joined: 24-October 12
From: Davis, CA
Member No.: 15,080
Region Association: Northern California



You can also check the VECI label (vehicle emission control information) and it will say "This vehicle conforms to US EPA and California regulations applicable to the 1976 model year new motor vehicles."
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Type 47
post Mar 14 2023, 06:10 PM
Post #6


Senior Member
***

Group: Members
Posts: 777
Joined: 1-June 10
From: St. Louis, MO
Member No.: 11,790
Region Association: None



QUOTE(rgalla9146 @ Mar 13 2023, 05:24 PM) *

A 1976 California car will have a EGR lamp on the dash and a EGR reset box under the
passenger footrest

and something like that on the drivers side in the rear trunk. If you have these and they are not plugged in to something it's a 49 state car.



Attached Image Attached Image
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Chris914n6
post Mar 14 2023, 08:34 PM
Post #7


Jackstands are my life.
****

Group: Members
Posts: 3,271
Joined: 14-March 03
From: Las Vegas, NV
Member No.: 431
Region Association: Southwest Region



Writing myself a note to look at my vin sticker for you tomorrow. I have a 75 cali car with the windshield sticker, and removed cat counter in pass footwell.

I replaced it with a motor that will actually pass the sniffer test (IMG:style_emoticons/default/av-943.gif)
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
wonkipop
post Mar 14 2023, 08:50 PM
Post #8


Advanced Member
****

Group: Members
Posts: 4,118
Joined: 6-May 20
From: north antarctica
Member No.: 24,231
Region Association: NineFourteenerVille



is that true that only california cars had cats in 1976?
i thought cats were US wide for 76 model year for all car makers and all models.

its certainly true that only the 75 californian cars had cats.
not the 49 state cars.

my understanding of the emissions laws through the 70s is that it is incremental.
california gets the standards the year before the other states do.
the next year the 49 states gets the california standard of previous year and california moves on to the higher standard. and so on.

i know from the EPA research we did on the L jets a couple of years back that i came across the government documents detailing the agreements auto manufacturers made with the EPA in the late 60s and early 70s. thats when the decision was made that exhaust catalysers were the way to go. in fact the automakers pressed for the cats rather than other technologies. the concern the auto makers had was in relation to supply of the catalysers and so they proposed a staged introduction.
the EPA agreed and thats how california got to be the lab test rat so to speak.

but i could be wrong about all this.
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
JeffBowlsby
post Mar 14 2023, 09:09 PM
Post #9


914 Wiring Harnesses
*****

Group: Members
Posts: 8,417
Joined: 7-January 03
From: San Ramon CA
Member No.: 104
Region Association: None



All 75-76 CA-model 914s required cats.

https://bowlsby.net/914/Classic/Emissions.htm See chart at bottom pf page.
User is online!Profile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
wonkipop
post Mar 14 2023, 10:02 PM
Post #10


Advanced Member
****

Group: Members
Posts: 4,118
Joined: 6-May 20
From: north antarctica
Member No.: 24,231
Region Association: NineFourteenerVille



QUOTE(JeffBowlsby @ Mar 14 2023, 09:09 PM) *

All 75-76 CA-model 914s required cats.

https://bowlsby.net/914/Classic/Emissions.htm See chart at bottom pf page.


ah, i just figured out how porsche got away with not having cats on MY76 49 state cars.
they ceased production at the end of 1975 calendar year.
end of calendar year 75 was the final deadline - after that all cars sold USA wide had to be fitted with cats.
most car makers that intended to market a car for the full 76 MY installed cats.
porsche knew they were finishing this baby off.
they ran that to the wire! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
JeffBowlsby
post Mar 14 2023, 10:18 PM
Post #11


914 Wiring Harnesses
*****

Group: Members
Posts: 8,417
Joined: 7-January 03
From: San Ramon CA
Member No.: 104
Region Association: None



Got proof or is that speculation? We’ve heard that the emissions reqs ran with the model year, not calendar year. Here in CA, 76s require bi-annual smog cents, even though made in calendar 75.
User is online!Profile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
wonkipop
post Mar 15 2023, 12:29 AM
Post #12


Advanced Member
****

Group: Members
Posts: 4,118
Joined: 6-May 20
From: north antarctica
Member No.: 24,231
Region Association: NineFourteenerVille



QUOTE(JeffBowlsby @ Mar 14 2023, 10:18 PM) *

Got proof or is that speculation? We’ve heard that the emissions reqs ran with the model year, not calendar year. Here in CA, 76s require bi-annual smog cents, even though made in calendar 75.


its not exactly a speculation mr. b.
i dug a lot of stuff on the EPA for the 1,8 EC-A, EC-B research.
i'll dig up the specific EPA thing again. i know its on file somewhere in the EC-A/B material i have.

there was a specific date laid down for all cars sold in the USA to have Cats.
and like most things EPA related it is a calendar date.
in terms of a final deadline.
and i do recall the year is 1975.
and thats for USA wide. not just california.
thats the year before.

many of the domestic automakers in the USA staggered the introduction of the cats across their model ranges during the model year. not necessarily at the commencement of the model year.
supply of catalysers was the issue. gearing up production of them from suppliers.

User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
type47fan
post Mar 15 2023, 12:53 AM
Post #13


It Looks Better In Person. . .
***

Group: Members
Posts: 860
Joined: 17-September 03
From: Carlsbad, CA
Member No.: 1,170
Region Association: Southern California



QUOTE(JeffBowlsby @ Mar 14 2023, 09:18 PM) *

Got proof or is that speculation? We’ve heard that the emissions reqs ran with the model year, not calendar year. Here in CA, 76s require bi-annual smog cents, even though made in calendar 75.


VIN 4762903947 MFG 12/75

Supplemental driver door silver label states "1976 model year".

Attached Image

Based on the chassis tag (5029038) in the driver side door jamb, my car probably began assembly on Tuesday, December 16, 1975, during the final week of formal assembly for the model.

California had a 30 year rolling exemption for smog certs that was discontinued in 2006. Hence, the 30 year old model year (MY) 1975 California 914s made the cut in 2005, but the MY 1976 didn't for 2006, and beyond.

Info from BAR:

"Collector cars that are model-year 1976 and newer require a Smog Check. Because Smog Check stations do not have the equipment necessary to inspect collector cars, collector cars are eligible for an abbreviated inspection performed by a Smog Check Referee. For more information, visit https://bar.ca.gov/consumer/smog-check-prog.../collector-cars page or https://asktheref.org/."

"All vehicles that are model-year 1975 and older do not require a Smog Check."

" . . . while California law requires the Smog Check Program to focus on high-polluting vehicles, the Smog Check Program also does not require older vehicles to meet the same emissions standards as newer vehicles. Smog Check emissions standards consider the vehicle type and model year so that a vehicle is never held to a standard that applied when the vehicle was originally manufactured."
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
wonkipop
post Mar 15 2023, 02:20 PM
Post #14


Advanced Member
****

Group: Members
Posts: 4,118
Joined: 6-May 20
From: north antarctica
Member No.: 24,231
Region Association: NineFourteenerVille



@type47 fan

not what jeff is talking about.
jeff and i are talking about the 49 state cars.
i had not realised the 76 49 state cars did not have a cat.
as everything was required to have a cat by 76 MY usa wide.


........so how come a 76 914 got away without one?

jeff's asking for proof about my statement that they slip through the net because they stop production in dec 75.

the summary version is the clean air act by nixon administration in 1970 is a way bigger act than vehicle emission regulation. the act is not written in model year terms.
model years are an automaker convention. the act has a date on it. 1975 period.

it was the auto makers who negotiated with the USEPA in terms of model years.
thats how automakers introduced styling changes and more importantly major engineering changes.

jeff wants the date of the act.
he may not think so.
but thats what he is asking for.
i'll find it again.

its the clean air act by the nixon administration.
it was passed in 1970.


------
am well aware that everything in california has a cat from 75 MY on.

am also aware that everything in the USA wide was supposed to have a cat from 76 MY on. (ie from fall 75). thats how the USEPA and CARB implemented the clean air act via the auto makers. they staggered it from 73 on. to stage the introduction of the tech and assist with the scale of the implementation. cal first, then rest of USA following year.

for insight into this one of the surprises was that Ford achieved fitting of cats to all models, USA wide by the end of the 75 MY. slightly ahead of schedule.
the other two of the big three did not make it until the start of the 76 MY.

and it turns out porsche did not make it at all when it came to a 76 914 49 states.
interesting little duck and weave by the germans if you ask me.
they don't have to? they end the car in 75? same time as the act has the final deadline.
which is actually a year. not a specific day. the act had a bit of lattitude in that sense.

if they hadn't ducked and weaved, and you owned a 76 914 49 state car and it was still intact with pollution gear - it would have conformed to californian standards. thats the year that the emissions standards come into conformity USA wide. that was the EPA big plan.
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
wonkipop
post Mar 15 2023, 04:59 PM
Post #15


Advanced Member
****

Group: Members
Posts: 4,118
Joined: 6-May 20
From: north antarctica
Member No.: 24,231
Region Association: NineFourteenerVille



righteo mr. b @JeffBowlsby .

i think this is the about the 4th item you have challenged me on where i have been correct. lets see. charcoal cannisters? EC-A = california. EC-B = 49 states.
there was a few other things i recall from 1.8s. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beer.gif)
i can't figure out whether you are exploiting me as a third world inhabitant to do your research hard yards (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) or i know more than you guys about your own laws and congress.

i first boned up on this crap back in the 80s in prep for my scholarship interviews to go the USA long before the internet existed and back then i used our fine provincial university library. believe it or not i was interested in USA construction code standards for energy efficiency in buildings. you guys had codes. no one else in the world did.
you had an EPA. down here we just copied you a few years later. back in that era ther rest of the world looked to the USA for technological leadership.

what a truly great time in the history of the planet. i mean it. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

anyway i found this stuff because i was interested in the CARB approval dates for emission approval of the 1974 L jets, thanks to member L-Jet914 who had the CARB docs and posted them. when i went to the source in the CARB archives the approvals were always submitted and granted beginning in jan of each calendar year, despite the model year starting 4 months before.


here is the link to the clean air act in 1970 (in its 1970 form without the later ammendments). get a headache reading the whole thing if you don't believe me (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) . you guys really know how to write legislation gobble-de-gook. i thought our government was good at it down here.
we got nothing on you.

https://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/91/hr17255/text


and for those who don't want to have their heads throbbing due to reading how the government brings down a sledgehammer - an extract to just induce a mild bit of discomfort.

Attached Image
Attached Image

if you read the model year definition really carefully you can see how porsche did it.
read it three times and the penny will drop.
the act has one of those classic bureaucratic/legal definitions.
model year must include jan 1 of the calendar year as well.

if you are wondering why they do the jan 1 inclusion its how the act reconciles its broader goal of 1975 as the year standards are achieved with automaker annualisation.

anyway the point is, under the act, porsche for all intents and purposes could say they were not producing a 1976 model year car. they were not making it on or after jan 1 1976. they might have called it a 76 MY for the sake of the showroom, but when knocking on the EPAs door they were defining it as something else.

a bit like the famous 1970 1/2 ford falcon. only made for 6 months. ford had a 6 month model. (i wonder if thats got something to do with evap emission control systems? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) )

------

of mild interest is to note when the act set the standards for CO and hydrocarbons as 1975 and for NOX as 1976 MY. in reality this was executed a little differently.
sometime shortly after 72 it was revised to stagger - with california leading.
and the NOX was actually achieved earlier with the CO and HC coming later as the cat dealt with the CO and HC. NOX was done with ignition timing.
and whats not mentioned is the scramble to get the unleaded fuel infrastructure set up for the cats.
that was all rearranged with approval from the EPA after lots of discussion and negotiation with auto makers. the main goal was to achieve the whole thing by the end of 1975. ie Jan 1 1976. which they did.

i got other stuff too on file i found with the L jets.
stuff you guys would have long forgotten.
like for instance the EPA and CARB woke up pretty quick that every time a californian or texan drove into mexico they couldn't gas up on unleaded.
so the trip killed their cats.
there was a special little law that kicked in that meant you had to go have your car tested to see if the cat still worked. and if it did they gave you a sticker. and if it didn't you got an order to get a new cat.
i'm not sure this was enforced.
but its there as an ammendment to the clean air act.
dates from 77. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beer.gif)
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
JeffBowlsby
post Mar 15 2023, 07:27 PM
Post #16


914 Wiring Harnesses
*****

Group: Members
Posts: 8,417
Joined: 7-January 03
From: San Ramon CA
Member No.: 104
Region Association: None



Awesome man. That is a really thorough explanation and makes perfect sense. Its all news to me.

Near as I can understand the 75-76 2.0s were essentially the same car. In two models 49-state and CA-models. Only difference being marketing materials, VIN numbers and trims.
User is online!Profile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
wonkipop
post Mar 15 2023, 08:01 PM
Post #17


Advanced Member
****

Group: Members
Posts: 4,118
Joined: 6-May 20
From: north antarctica
Member No.: 24,231
Region Association: NineFourteenerVille



QUOTE(JeffBowlsby @ Mar 15 2023, 07:27 PM) *

Awesome man. That is a really thorough explanation and makes perfect sense. Its all news to me.

Near as I can understand the 75-76 2.0s were essentially the same car. In two models 49-state and CA-models. Only difference being marketing materials, VIN numbers and trims.


my pleasure mate. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

its my training as an architect.
there is always a definition for a term and it never quite means what you think it does.
ie "model year". but the legislators think of everything. they think "lawyer".

i found so much crap digging out the truth behind those L Jets.
most of it useless, except for trivia like this stuff.

ps. i was wrong about ford getting there first with catalysts in 1975.
it was GM.
what Ford tried to do was tune the cars down using "strangulation" to meet the NOX, HC and CO standards. it made the cars guzzle petrol. even their small cars like Pintos which were supposed to be economical. just as the fuel crisis hit. good idea not.
they quickly backed away from that and started screwing the cats on.
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
wonkipop
post Mar 15 2023, 08:15 PM
Post #18


Advanced Member
****

Group: Members
Posts: 4,118
Joined: 6-May 20
From: north antarctica
Member No.: 24,231
Region Association: NineFourteenerVille



QUOTE(JeffBowlsby @ Mar 15 2023, 07:27 PM) *

Awesome man. That is a really thorough explanation and makes perfect sense. Its all news to me.

Near as I can understand the 75-76 2.0s were essentially the same car. In two models 49-state and CA-models. Only difference being marketing materials, VIN numbers and trims.


yeah - when you look through the CARB archive there is no approval for 1976 MY porsche 914s. don't exist. wasn't applied for? or least i couldn't find it.

i had to think about that again when you guys brought up this idea of californian and USA 76 models.

basically as far as officialdom was concerned no such thing as a 1976 MY 914?
they are all "1975"s. california and USA. like the 70&1/2 ford falcon. (which i might add is a pretty car, we kind of got an evolution of that falcon in our early 70s australian falcon - which went on to spit out the lovely "mad max" falcon hardtop GTs.) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
JeffBowlsby
post Mar 15 2023, 08:58 PM
Post #19


914 Wiring Harnesses
*****

Group: Members
Posts: 8,417
Joined: 7-January 03
From: San Ramon CA
Member No.: 104
Region Association: None



There must be some other CA law here that overlaps the 75-76 model years. In CA, 75 914s are exempt from bi-annual smog testing, but 76 model year cars are not exempt. This requirement is not exclusive to 914s.

Considering the effects in hindsight at this point in time, P should not have marketed the 76 cars. We’d be better off if they had just extended the production as 75 model year cars but maybe there were other laws that prevented that. No 76 model year 914s were sold to Europe.
User is online!Profile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
wonkipop
post Mar 15 2023, 09:09 PM
Post #20


Advanced Member
****

Group: Members
Posts: 4,118
Joined: 6-May 20
From: north antarctica
Member No.: 24,231
Region Association: NineFourteenerVille



QUOTE(JeffBowlsby @ Mar 15 2023, 08:58 PM) *

There must be some other CA law here that overlaps the 75-76 model years. In CA, 75 914s are exempt from bi-annual smog testing, but 76 model year cars are not exempt. This requirement is not exclusive to 914s.

Considering the effects in hindsight at this point in time, P should not have marketed the 76 cars. We’d be better off if they had just extended the production as 75 model year cars but maybe there were other laws that prevented that. No 76 model year 914s were sold to Europe.


yes.

but i guess no one was really thinking about a situation 50 years down the track with californian legislators. the truth is the cars should be exempt as historic vehicles.
its not like there are thousands of them running around spewing out hydrocarbons.
they only get driven on weekends for the most parts for anachronistic pleasure.

its the legislators at present who are being plain silly?

EDIT
i should add that technically speaking california arrived at the jan 1 1976 deadline in MY 75. so technically speaking a 76 car is a repeat of the 75 car (any model) when it comes to california. and they stay that way pretty much until 1980. there are some small revisions to exhaust emissions but nothing much changes until 1980. the reason for that is the EPA know the next step is closed loop systems. that required O2 sensors and there were none until Bosch finally cracked them in late 70s and we could get there - feedback systems allowed them to go the next step in emissions reductions. so really if they are letting you drive a 75 "un-monitored and un-smogged" in california they should be letting you drive anything pretty much from 75 to 80. thats how i understand it. so its a strange boundary for california to pick.

its only the rest of the USA where a 75 does not equal a 76MY. 76 MY or post jan 1 1976 where the cat becomes mandatory. and its only really the 76 914 for rest of USA that is exploiting the loophole to be manufactured and sold when it was.
yet it seems the rest of the USA doesn't give 2 F#$%s so to speak about a 76 50 years later.

ironic.
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post

3 Pages V  1 2 3 >
Reply to this topicStart new topic
1 User(s) are reading this topic (1 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:

 



- Lo-Fi Version Time is now: 24th February 2024 - 09:01 AM