Carbs versus FI, I can buy some carbs and stuff but can I buy FI? Options

[GregAmy]

A megasquirt or whatever will run great using the stock D Jet hardware with the addition of modern sensors. I haven't done this yet...

I have...see my sig... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) Prego, it's in there...and you can do it too. - GA

[partsguy22]

Clay Said I should mention our efforts towards this.
We have been working on a 914 version of our Carb to EFI kits for 356s
We recently did a customers 74 2L and it was a very easy adaptation and will soon be offered as a kit along side of the 356 and 912 kits we currently have.

The kit used a MicroSquirt ECU ,Dual 40mm Weber IDF pattern throttle bodies and a hall effect distributor, it retains the stock fuel pump and regulator and integrates into the original relay board for both power and fuel pump control

On an otherwise stock 2.0 with a mild cam (web 107i) it ended up making 107whp @5200/112wtq@4250 or 121hp and 126tq corrected flywheel with great drivability

Pics to follow if your interested

[gnomefabtech]

[quote name='gnomefabtech' post='3067062' date='Mar 22 2023, 10:26 PM']
A megasquirt or whatever will run great using the stock D Jet hardware with the addition of modern sensors. I haven't done this yet...[/quote]
I have...see my sig... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) Prego, it's in there...and you can do it too. - GA
[/quote]


That's a great setup! I'm sure there are significant power and economy gains to be had from just being able to tune accurately. Plus less smog. Win win win!

On another note, it's annoying how expensive throttle bodies are for our cars once they wear out so after a bit of poking around I found that the TB from a 04 Chevy Aveo is the same diameter and has a TPS already. Might work with an adaptor plate. It also has an internal idle port and valve.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/284111221789?chn=p...16c0435d2fa1cb8

[NARP74]

Clay Said I should mention our efforts towards this.
We have been working on a 914 version of our Carb to EFI kits for 356s
We recently did a customers 74 2L and it was a very easy adaptation and will soon be offered as a kit along side of the 356 and 912 kits we currently have.

The kit used a MicroSquirt ECU ,Dual 40mm Weber IDF pattern throttle bodies and a hall effect distributor, it retains the stock fuel pump and regulator and integrates into the original relay board for both power and fuel pump control

On an otherwise stock 2.0 with a mild cam (web 107i) it ended up making 107whp @5200/112wtq@4250 or 121hp and 126tq corrected flywheel with great drivability

Pics to follow if your interested

Very interested. I don't know who you are. What company is doing this? Pics please

[bossboy302]

imo by the time you buy carbs & associated bits + then tuning you are roughly equal to what ever it will take to resurrect the OE FI. Aftermarket FI kits will be a step up in $ & complexity.

what's on the car now is a a nice set of 40 IDF Webers that were on the car when I took it apart. We cleaned them and put the rebuild kit stuff on them.

I also have another set of those on a spare 1.8 but they are in need of some TLC.

I have the original FI in a box...I've tested some of the stuff and what i tested was operational. Of course something in the box is bad or the PO would not have swapped it out for the Webers.

I'm not interested in the original FI but some new stuff might be interesting. I'm getting frustrated tuning the Webers.

I'm going to check out some of the info that was posted.

but I'm not starting from scratch. maybe I should just man up and learn how to tune the carbs.

but i'm should investigate the new FI options.

I too have followed your (other) thread. The carbs, when finished, should give years of trouble-free operation. But they have to be properly 'prepared'...

Give them a complete tear-down and thorough cleaning. (Ultrasonic cleaner from Amazon @ 400-500 are great, and can be used for many other purposes). Have the throttle shafts rebushed by a knowlegable machinist. This is one of the biggest sources of tuning difficulties. Then carefully re-assemble with qiuality parts, etc.......

Not rocket science, just parts which can, with patience and understanding. can be made to work reliably. Enjoy!

[gnomefabtech]

Clay Said I should mention our efforts towards this.
We have been working on a 914 version of our Carb to EFI kits for 356s
We recently did a customers 74 2L and it was a very easy adaptation and will soon be offered as a kit along side of the 356 and 912 kits we currently have.

The kit used a MicroSquirt ECU ,Dual 40mm Weber IDF pattern throttle bodies and a hall effect distributor, it retains the stock fuel pump and regulator and integrates into the original relay board for both power and fuel pump control

On an otherwise stock 2.0 with a mild cam (web 107i) it ended up making 107whp @5200/112wtq@4250 or 121hp and 126tq corrected flywheel with great drivability

Pics to follow if your interested

So you are not using a crank trigger wheel? Where does the Hall effect distributor come from? Or is it custom made by you?

[ClayPerrine]

Clay Said I should mention our efforts towards this.
We have been working on a 914 version of our Carb to EFI kits for 356s
We recently did a customers 74 2L and it was a very easy adaptation and will soon be offered as a kit along side of the 356 and 912 kits we currently have.

The kit used a MicroSquirt ECU ,Dual 40mm Weber IDF pattern throttle bodies and a hall effect distributor, it retains the stock fuel pump and regulator and integrates into the original relay board for both power and fuel pump control

On an otherwise stock 2.0 with a mild cam (web 107i) it ended up making 107whp @5200/112wtq@4250 or 121hp and 126tq corrected flywheel with great drivability

Pics to follow if your interested

Very interested. I don't know who you are. What company is doing this? Pics please

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/allzim.com-1143-1679594492.1.png)

Zim's Autotechnik.

Https://www.allzim.com

Partsguy22 is Aaron, the parts manager at Zims. He helped me with the machine work for the 4.0, and I have seen, and driven the their 356 with FI, and have seen the 914 with fuel injection. The system is simple, and fairly bulletproof. It should be a bolt on system with no mods required. Granted, to get the BEST horsepower, you would need to take it to a dyno, but as is, it bolts on and runs.

Here's a link to the fuel injection kit for the 356. https://store.allzim.com/356-parts/efi-conv...ersion-faq.html

I don't think the 914 FI is on the website yet.

Aaron @partsguy22 will have to post pictures.

[technicalninja]

Basic tuning of an aftermarket ECU does not require a dyno.

It's far better to educate yourself on tuning and get all of the "run normally" stuff done long before you head to a dyno.

A good dyno tune is for setting AFR and ignition timing for BMT (best mean torque) in a semi-laboratory setting.

Making multiple runs fine tuning AFR and continuing to add timing until either of two things happen.
One-adding additional timing does NOT further increase power. At this point you have achieved BMT and you back the timing up a little bit past where the power maxed out. This is what we WANT to happen.

Two- add timing until the knock sensor starts showing hits. Back timing up a bit from the point that the knock occurs. For my stuff I'd be close to knock limits. For my customer's stuff I'd back it up an additional 3+ degrees to be conservative. This is what we call knock limited power. Adding higher octane fuel is the solution to this problem and 90+% of tuning on pump gas ends this way.
100 octane race gas or E85 usually allows tuning to BMT without knock.

These power tunes HAVE to be done on some kind of torque measuring device but if the basics are not completed by the time you hit the dyno you are just wasting your time.

A simple laptop, properly set up system, and 10+ hours of getting it right are what I do BEFORE I hit a dyno...

[partsguy22]

I thought I had more pictures of the project after it was finished...

Future revisions will be using a different throttle linkage most likely as it seems most in the 914 community dislike this style , but coming from 356s we have little issue with it

[Type 47]

There is a lot to learn if you’ve never done it before - but you can learn it and the guys here want to help and want to see you succeed.

If this is your first rodeo (sounds like it is) you might want to just hit pause for a day or two. Spend a few days on YouTube and learn more about IDFs and how they work and get two or three perspectives on tuning them. CB Performance also has some good basic setup advice on their site.

The main thing is being willing to put in the time to do the iterative tweaking. The first time I did it, it was awful. But once you learn how to make small changes and listen to how the engine responds, it just gets easier and easier and you’ll be proficient before you know it.

We are hitting pause for a few days, good advise.

while i've owned 7 914's since 77' this is the 1st one i've completely disassembled (except for the engine/trans) and reassembled.

Now that all the ignition stuff got pulled off and messed with I got thrown in the deep end, so tuning is fairly new other than adjusting valves, changing plugs, etc.

[Type 47]

Have you considered getting a base tune setup for you?

This is one place that may be helpful.

https://m.facebook.com/100063462346287/

Interesting, about an hour from where I live.
Thanks

[Superhawk996]

We are hitting pause for a few days, good advise.

Good call.

Here’s something to keep in mind with Webers and Dells of the IDF variety.

About 70-80% of your light load, and light throttle cruising occurs on the idle circuit and the off idle transition ports at low throttle angles.

It’s sort of crazy to contemplate but you can actually drive pretty decently (relatively speaking) with the main jets and the main emulsion tubes removed. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/new_shocked.gif) seriously!

Take the time to understand the idle circuit and to tune it properly.