Is it the fule pump?, Spluttering and stalling! Options

[chrispovoas]

At cold start (20 c) it should jump up to 12-1400 rpm. As it warms it will rise to 1400 but shouldn't go higher. That is the aux air valve. As the filament in the aav heats it will bring the idle down. As the heads heat the sensor the ECU uses to enrich the air fuel ratio will eventually tell the ECU to knock it off. At this point the idle should be about 850. This can take a long long time in cold temps. Temps less than 20c.

The system the type 4 uses to control airflow over the oil cooler and heads is really interesting and important. Besides insuring that you are not running lean, you need to make sure that is working as intended. Do you have a Chilton's or clymers manual?

Just went out for a 30min spin and the idle etc seems to line up as per your comments above.

The first 10 minutes of the drive it was coughing and spluttering, no power etc.. But after about 15 minutes of warm up that went away and it ran fine.

This is how it was yesterday, but on an extended run (a 3 hour drive) with more time is when it stalled a number of times.

No, dont have either of those manuals..

[emerygt350]

You need to get the Haynes manual for the 914 4. It will be difficult to identify the parts you need to find without it.

It sounds like that aux air is working? Was your idle high at start and then decreased over time?

[TonyH]

Hi guys, Chris from New Zealand here....finally bought myself a 914! Shes a '73 2.0 with original FI. Had her about a week, after standing for 8 years.

Previous owner spent some time and money getting her on the road as part of the sale to me, but still a bit of work to be done! I'll try and attach a picture.

Took her for a shakedown run today for about 3 hours but then she started coughing and spluttering then stalled at about 60mph. Coasted to a halt, ignition on/off and away she went again for about half an hour.. Same thing again, ignition on/off and all was well for another 20 min.. This went on and on and the intervals between spluttering and stalling got more frequent until i just about made it home.

Felt like fuel rather than electrical... Could it be the fuel pump, or any other ideas?

Welcome to the 914world.

These are a good group of people. I have many years of experience with older cars but you can always learn something, particularly from these good people.

I have had my 914 for about 18 months, and as seems to be common with these they sit around unused for ages, which creates its own problems, as you are finding.

Good luck, she is a very pretty car.

I have a feeling I'll be using the forum quite a bit (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Nice to meet everyone!

[mgphoto]

Hello and very nice car, your problem for the long drive issue is fuel starvation. There is dirt at the bottom of the fuel tank, material is building up on the fuel sock as you drive, due to the constant high pressure.
Clean fuel lines, tank and replace the filter, I like to reverse polarity on the fuel pump to back flush it.

When you get the lines clean, hunting down D-Jet problems will be easier to fix.

[emerygt350]

That is a possibility, but I would save that for after some of the easier stuff is ruled out.

[rhodyguy]

With the tank empty, you can look in the tank (flashlight) and see the condition of the fuel sock. Sucked flat, copious amount of rust in the tank bottom and fuel well? Remove the tank, clean it and replace the sock. I would plan on replacing the fuel filter as well. And any old hoses.

[sixnotfour]

flashlight , look in gas tank ,replace fuel filter....OLD Car Blues

[Jamie]

flashlight , look in gas tank ,replace fuel filter....OLD Car Blues

Skip replacing the sock filter in the tank and place a line filter outside the tank where it can be observed and serviced. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beer.gif)

[rhodyguy]

As the pump creates a vacuum the fouled sock sucks flat, fuel flow is reduced or stops. You can put 10 filters on the supply line but the issue remains. The first one in line will get fouled with tank debris. Cleaning the tank itself and replacing the sock removes 2 issue items. Most socks are decades old and rusted tanks add to the problem. Tank socks cost about $5.50. You can’t buy filters for that. Then there’s the joy of replacing or cleaning the first stand alone filter on a regular basis. No thanks.

[porschetub]

Hi guys, Chris from New Zealand here....finally bought myself a 914! Shes a '73 2.0 with original FI. Had her about a week, after standing for 8 years.

Previous owner spent some time and money getting her on the road as part of the sale to me, but still a bit of work to be done! I'll try and attach a picture.

Took her for a shakedown run today for about 3 hours but then she started coughing and spluttering then stalled at about 60mph. Coasted to a halt, ignition on/off and away she went again for about half an hour.. Same thing again, ignition on/off and all was well for another 20 min.. This went on and on and the intervals between spluttering and stalling got more frequent until i just about made it home.

Felt like fuel rather than electrical... Could it be the fuel pump, or any other ideas?

I have a feeling I'll be using the forum quite a bit (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Nice to meet everyone!

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/welcome.png) greeting from fellow NZ 914 owner .
As beatnavy mentioned check the grounds, connections, relays etc as it could be electrical,if it all looks ok check plugs ,leads ,cap,points and plugs ,could be something simple like a dying coil or points out of adjustment/or just worn out.
Reset / check valve clearances then start it up and check timing if you have a stable idle otherwise you need to make sure your aux air valve is working,you can test this by diconnecting the power wire and if it still runs the same the valve is stuck and not opening.
See how you go ,you can email me for a chat anytime ,like to keep up with NZ owners and chat ,cheers.
Oh and forgot to mention ,real nice looking car (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif) .

Thanks Porschetub! where are you based?

This was Alistair Moffats car in Auckland. He's done a fair bit of work to get ot on the road, mostly what needed to be done to pass a WoF and get it drivable, so brakes, clutch, gear shift springs, bushes, some FI hoses etc etc... It drives really well. feels tight and responsive, just the stalling issue to report after a drive from Auck to Mt Maunganui and back in the same day... The usual rattles and squeeks prevail, but nothing that some online shopping at Auto Altanta cant fix! (where do you go for your parts?).

Started ok this morning.. bit of a flutter, but a boot full got it idling.. Seems to idle high at around 1200/1400 rpm.

I'am based in Nelson bays in a 'one horse' town over the bay called Motueka ,moved here a couple of yrs ago .
I have bought parts from mainly from the west coast of the US as it keeps the crazy shipping cost a bit less crazy ,I can email you my favourites if you like .
Sellers on here are great also as there prices are generally very keen and NEVER had an issue with quality .
Sounds like your cold idle is in the ballpark so your AAR must be working ,could be an air leak to fix or an adjustment of the air screw,best to check your timing before doing this as it could be over- advanced or the distributor is a bit gummed up which is very common with 205 number units..
Sounds like a bit already been done so thats a step ahead in terms of labour ,time and $$$.
Included a pic of my NZ new car ,cheers.

[r_towle]

Pull tank
Replace fuel sock and all rubber lines under tank.
Dump all fuel in tank
Wash tank with laquer thinner or paint thinner
Fill, shake, dump, repeat.
Dump out the filler area, it’s bigger.
Repeat until no debris comes out.

Then put it all back together with a new sock.
Replace fuel filter.
Make sure fuel filter is between the tank and the pump.
Make sure the line that feeds the fuel pump is the line with the sock at the tank.


Rich

[emerygt350]

Wow, you guys really want to pull this poor guys tank. This happened once. After 3 hours of driving. Lots of little easy things to check on before we go replacing every part of the fuel system.

So, back to the first issue to solve...
I suspect the fi cht might be disconnected/not working/lacking the weird 1 year only inline resistor. Does it start right up and then after a couple of seconds run rough at cold start, or is it immediate?

[r_towle]

How long did the car sit with bad fuel in it?
Todays fuel turns into honey, then gets hard.

[Superhawk996]

Wow, you guys really want to pull this poor guys tank. This happened once. After 3 hours of driving. Lots of little easy things to check on before we go replacing every part of the fuel system.

Nah - people love the shotgun approach rather than logical, methodical troubleshooting (IMG:style_emoticons/default/av-943.gif) I think it comes down to a belief that by swapping parts your doing something.

From OP 1st post there are probably a couple separate issues going on.

Not sure why so many have jumped to the assumption that it’s a fuel problem. Ignition issues have a surprising way of seeming to be fuel issues and vice versa.

[chrispovoas]

You need to get the Haynes manual for the 914 4. It will be difficult to identify the parts you need to find without it.

It sounds like that aux air is working? Was your idle high at start and then decreased over time?

Well funnily enough, i went over to the guys house i bought the car off and he has a rebuilt AAR valve! So ill put that in next weekend and see if that fixes the isue..

[chrispovoas]

Hello and very nice car, your problem for the long drive issue is fuel starvation. There is dirt at the bottom of the fuel tank, material is building up on the fuel sock as you drive, due to the constant high pressure.
Clean fuel lines, tank and replace the filter, I like to reverse polarity on the fuel pump to back flush it.

When you get the lines clean, hunting down D-Jet problems will be easier to fix.

Thanks MG! all good advice for the newbie!!!

[chrispovoas]

With the tank empty, you can look in the tank (flashlight) and see the condition of the fuel sock. Sucked flat, copious amount of rust in the tank bottom and fuel well? Remove the tank, clean it and replace the sock. I would plan on replacing the fuel filter as well. And any old hoses.

Thanks Rhod!! if and when the tanks comes out, may as well change the filter and poss the pump, seeing as its 50 years old i reckon!

[chrispovoas]

flashlight , look in gas tank ,replace fuel filter....OLD Car Blues

Skip replacing the sock filter in the tank and place a line filter outside the tank where it can be observed and serviced. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beer.gif)

Thats good advice, cheers dude!

[chrispovoas]

Hi guys, Chris from New Zealand here....finally bought myself a 914! Shes a '73 2.0 with original FI. Had her about a week, after standing for 8 years.

Previous owner spent some time and money getting her on the road as part of the sale to me, but still a bit of work to be done! I'll try and attach a picture.

Took her for a shakedown run today for about 3 hours but then she started coughing and spluttering then stalled at about 60mph. Coasted to a halt, ignition on/off and away she went again for about half an hour.. Same thing again, ignition on/off and all was well for another 20 min.. This went on and on and the intervals between spluttering and stalling got more frequent until i just about made it home.

Felt like fuel rather than electrical... Could it be the fuel pump, or any other ideas?

I have a feeling I'll be using the forum quite a bit (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Nice to meet everyone!

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/welcome.png) greeting from fellow NZ 914 owner .
As beatnavy mentioned check the grounds, connections, relays etc as it could be electrical,if it all looks ok check plugs ,leads ,cap,points and plugs ,could be something simple like a dying coil or points out of adjustment/or just worn out.
Reset / check valve clearances then start it up and check timing if you have a stable idle otherwise you need to make sure your aux air valve is working,you can test this by diconnecting the power wire and if it still runs the same the valve is stuck and not opening.
See how you go ,you can email me for a chat anytime ,like to keep up with NZ owners and chat ,cheers.
Oh and forgot to mention ,real nice looking car (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif) .

Thanks Porschetub! where are you based?

This was Alistair Moffats car in Auckland. He's done a fair bit of work to get ot on the road, mostly what needed to be done to pass a WoF and get it drivable, so brakes, clutch, gear shift springs, bushes, some FI hoses etc etc... It drives really well. feels tight and responsive, just the stalling issue to report after a drive from Auck to Mt Maunganui and back in the same day... The usual rattles and squeeks prevail, but nothing that some online shopping at Auto Altanta cant fix! (where do you go for your parts?).

Started ok this morning.. bit of a flutter, but a boot full got it idling.. Seems to idle high at around 1200/1400 rpm.

I'am based in Nelson bays in a 'one horse' town over the bay called Motueka ,moved here a couple of yrs ago .
I have bought parts from mainly from the west coast of the US as it keeps the crazy shipping cost a bit less crazy ,I can email you my favourites if you like .
Sellers on here are great also as there prices are generally very keen and NEVER had an issue with quality .
Sounds like your cold idle is in the ballpark so your AAR must be working ,could be an air leak to fix or an adjustment of the air screw,best to check your timing before doing this as it could be over- advanced or the distributor is a bit gummed up which is very common with 205 number units..
Sounds like a bit already been done so thats a step ahead in terms of labour ,time and $$$.
Included a pic of my NZ new car ,cheers.

Ahhh Moteka eh! Never been, but know of it... Thanks for the advice.. Alistair has given me a rebuilt AAR, so may as well install in next weekend, see if that helps. One thing at a time!!

Is your car a 6?

[chrispovoas]

Pull tank
Replace fuel sock and all rubber lines under tank.
Dump all fuel in tank
Wash tank with laquer thinner or paint thinner
Fill, shake, dump, repeat.
Dump out the filler area, it’s bigger.
Repeat until no debris comes out.

Then put it all back together with a new sock.
Replace fuel filter.
Make sure fuel filter is between the tank and the pump.
Make sure the line that feeds the fuel pump is the line with the sock at the tank.


Rich

Thanks for the directions, will need these if/when i pull the tank!. Well i have found a rebuilt AAR which ill throw in next weekend, se if that fix's it, if not then perhaps the tank and replace the filter while its out too