3 Port Fuel Pump Bosch 0 580 960 004, Sold As Replacement? Options

[914Sixer]

I picked up 2 NOS 3 port fuel pumps. Seller stated they were for Type 2,3,4. While they look very similar at first glance (my bad for not being more diligent), they have a 10mm lower port. Good news is the stock 8mm hose can be stretched over 10mm and work just like the other two. So they "can" be used as stock pumps. Just something to watch for. Bosch cross reference shows NLA and no information. Pump on right is "stock" pump for comparison.

[second wind]

I picked up 2 NOS 3 port fuel pumps. Seller stated they were for Type 2,3,4. While they look very similar at first glance (my bad for not being more diligent), they have a 10mm lower port. Good news is the stock 8mm hose can be stretched over 10mm and work just like the other two. So they "can" be used as stock pumps. Just something to watch for. Bosch cross reference shows NLA and no information. Pump on right is "stock" pump for comparison.

Hello Mark....nice find on your part. I am in the middle of changing out my fuel lines and I have a three port Bosch with the larger port. Do you know why they made that port larger and is there any benefit to that design? Thank you for your time.
All the best,
gg

[914Sixer]

Guessing since early VW's were on the wane, they made a universal one with larger lower port for Saab, Mercedes and other Euro cars. No Bosch info that I could find on this pump.

[wonkipop]

Guessing since early VW's were on the wane, they made a universal one with larger lower port for Saab, Mercedes and other Euro cars. No Bosch info that I could find on this pump.

the earlier VW ones did have the larger feed line port.
that 004 pump is earlier not later.

the pump on my 74 1.8] was a 009.
i still have it and it was original to the car. it has the three similar size ports.

i have a 005 out of a 74 saab, orignal to that car, it has the larger feed port.

i rebuilt the 005 and 009 i have and tested them.
deliver same flow rate and pressure.
the number sequence on the pumps would imply the 005 is an earlier design than the 009.

the differences are on the interior it means they gradually shrink the size of the pump.

that 004 you have probably has a turbulence shroud encasing the armature inside it.
the 005 has larger magnets than the 009 and is slightly longer. neither the 005 or 009 have turbulence shields.

the 004 would likely be completely compatible.
very likely it is from a D jet type 3 or maybe an early years 914?

[zoomCat]

I picked up 2 NOS 3 port fuel pumps. Seller stated they were for Type 2,3,4. While they look very similar at first glance (my bad for not being more diligent), they have a 10mm lower port. Good news is the stock 8mm hose can be stretched over 10mm and work just like the other two. So they "can" be used as stock pumps. Just something to watch for. Bosch cross reference shows NLA and no information. Pump on right is "stock" pump for comparison.

Hello Mark....nice find on your part. I am in the middle of changing out my fuel lines and I have a three port Bosch with the larger port. Do you know why they made that port larger and is there any benefit to that design? Thank you for your time.
All the best,
gg

My understanding is that the larger diameter line is the input to the pump from the tank, which requires the larger size to get the needed flow without pressurization. My 70 has the larger size input.

UPDATE: The PET is a bit confusing, but it lists 75 and later years as only having the single size hose (7mm).

[JeffBowlsby]

My old Bosch parts book lists fuel pump 0580960004 as correct for:

1969-71 Saab 99 1709cc
1972-74 Saab 99EMS, 99GL, 99GLE 1854CC

No other cars from that era listed that specific pump

[914Sixer]

Greg (Second Wind) is using one without trouble.

[wonkipop]

My old Bosch parts book lists fuel pump 0580960004 as correct for:

1969-71 Saab 99 1709cc
1972-74 Saab 99EMS, 99GL, 99GLE 1854CC

No other cars from that era listed that specific pump

interesting. the 005 i rebuilt came from a 74 SAAB EMS (aus delivery).
possibly was a supersede for the 004?
but who knows.
def original to the car. came off a wreck of an old friend.
sat in his back yard since it was crashed in the early 80s.
he had owned it since new.

what i noticed pulling the 005 apart compared to the 009 from my 74 L jet was that the internal magnets on the 005 electric motor were bigger. this made the pump slightly longer. my reading of that was the pump motor could develop more torque?
would make sense as the pump location on those D jet saabs was at the back of the car near the tank. longer circuit to keep pressurized might be the difference there?

the VW pumps of the same era are like the 914. at the rear near the engine.
short pressure circuit.

as i noted above i got the same flow and pressure levels out of both pumps when i tested them after rebuild. but it was a abstract test in the sense of using quite short hose runs delivering from one kerosine bottle to another.

theoretically i think the SAAB pump can work on a VW or a 914, but perhaps the VW specific pumps might struggle in the SAAB application due to the length of pressurized circuit.

i'm just speculating.

[JeffBowlsby]

According to Bosch:

1969-74 Saab 99, 99EMS, 99GL, 99GLE pump is 0580960004

1970-74 D-Jet 914 pump is 0580463004

1974 VW T2, 1968-73 VW T3, 1970-74 VW T4 pump is 0580463005

1975-76 914 (D-Jet and L-Jet), 1976 912E, 1975-79 VW Type 1, 1975-79 T2 and all Vanagon pumps are 0580463016

[wonkipop]

According to Bosch:

1969-74 Saab 99, 99EMS, 99GL, 99GLE pump is 0580960004

1970-74 D-Jet 914 pump is 0580463004

1974 VW T2, 1968-73 VW T3, 1970-74 VW T4 pump is 0580463005

1975-76 914 (D-Jet and L-Jet), 1976 912E, 1975-79 VW Type 1, 1975-79 T2 and all Vanagon pumps are 0580463016

great info mr. b
handy to have since i do have that 005 in my hot little hands and its nice to get data on what it officially was fitted to. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

have you got an official listing for the 0 580 463 009 pump in your data?
(thats the one that came of my 74 1.8).

i'll ask again with the man that the SAAB pump came off.
that could make sense with your listing of the 005 as a VW pump.
if that pump had been replaced back in the mists of time and he had forgotten about it,
there certainly would have been 005 pumps on the shelf in aus for the injected type 3 fastbacks that were officially sold down here.

not many cars ran d jet in aus.
the ones i know about are the VW type 3 fastbacks.
the SAAB EMS and i think the SAAB 99 Kombi coupe as it was called.
and i believe a lancia 4 door saloon around that era. it was the lancia with the boxer 4 rather than the narrow angle V4.
not much else. not even sure if the D jet mercs made it down here.

[JeffBowlsby]

My Bosch injection parts book is from 1998 and it does not list any 009 fuel pump. I checked every car.

[wonkipop]

My Bosch injection parts book is from 1998 and it does not list any 009 fuel pump. I checked every car.

thanks for taking a look at your book mr. b

i hunted back through my files from when i rebuilt the fuel pumps i had to see what i had found in various archives, from about 3 to 4 years ago.



seems to suggest that the run of pumps 006 through to 009 are superceding pumps for 005. but does not give dates for superceding. the 009 on my 1.8 was on it when i bought it in 89. i can't be 100% certain it was the original or a replacement but i feel it likely was original given condition of car back then - low miles, i owner.

i had some other stuff i had dug up off VW classic germany site from the parts catalogues for type3 and type 4 VWs. this listed the fuel pump as a VW part number.
311 906 091C for both VW models. the 914 PET i have lists it as 311 906 091D.
so the D supercedes the C at some date.

its pretty hard to work out as i was never been able to match the earlier VW part # C version to any bosch part number - however i did constantly get matches for the VW D version and it always came up VW 311 906 091 D = Bosch 0 580 463 005.

my conclusion back then and probably remains the same now is that a 009 is the same as a 005. its the replacement updated pump design that supercedes 005.

i have disassembled both pumps.
you can see the differences.
005 has a larger diam intake port. 009 has only a subtly larger intake port and you have to look very closely to notice. the internal bore is larger but the outer shape is the same as the other ports.
the electric motor magnets and windings are more compact on the later 009.

005



009

[wonkipop]

and a further confusion (or maybe clarification).

this fuel pump came off a fuel injected VW fastback (aus delivery) wreck.
i got hold of it for misc. parts as it was a non functioning pump and after opening up it was un-rebuildable.
again i cannot know if it was original to the car i got it off or a replacement pump along the way.
at least based on the chart i have of bosch fuel pumps and superceding order there seems to be a suggestion it is later than the 005 to 009.
i can't be sure however because once i pulled it apart it seemed to not be.
see next post below.

this one is the 0 580 960 004.

[wonkipop]

i don't believe i have ever been able to confirm what a VW part # C version pump is.

but i do know that early versions of the 3 port bosch pumps dating from the late 60s/early 70s have turbulence shrouds on their interior. this one came out of a mercedes benz. i've seen a similar thing with a bosch pump that came out of a D jet Citroen DS that had been disassembled.



but just to confuse the idea that the 0580 960 004 is later than the run of 0 580 463 005 through to 009 pumps or supercedes them this is what the interior of the 004 i have is like. very similar to the merc pump with turbulence shrouds. which suggests to me its actually an older pump from earlier than the 005 to 009 pumps.
questions. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)



i think in the end many of these pumps are essentially the same when it comes to the VWs and they can all be easily interchanged so long as the superceding pump alligns with the earlier version.

i use the little table i found a few years back to track the order of superceding.