I'd like to go racing, and check off a big box on the bucket list, but how do I do it? Options

[Type 47]

OK, I know you need to have a huge fortune to go racing so you can make a small fortune; but I don't have either.

from the time i saw my first SCCA showroom stock race I wanted to race. That was in the late 70's and at the time was thinking about the rent, not race tires.

Fast forward 30 years and I don't have to think about the rent, but racing is still super expensive.

I discovered tracked events (car clubs call them HDPE's) around 95' and have been doing them ever since. Not racing, but close. Kind of like qualifying with some rules.

So I've done track events on 13 different tracks. I started out at Gateway, in St Louis the track closest to home, and have about 2k miles on the 1.6 mile track. I started to go to Road America in 2001 about twice a year, so got about 5k of hot lap miles there. Autobahn, Road Atlanta, Barber Park, Heartland Park, Indy GP, Putnam Park, NCM, Ozark, VIR, Spring Mountain, and MAMP (what a shit hole). About 14k hot lap track miles over the last 22 years.

So now, every time I buy an $800 set of brake pads or a $500 set of scrub tires I'm thinking this is the last set and them I'm hanging up the helmet. Problem is...when the tires start to get used up, I've got a half set of pads left and buy more tires, then more pads. Been doing this for a couple years now.

So is there a path to do some racing at some level (PCA, SCCA) without blowing my retirement savings?

[mepstein]

Remember, when you are racing, you might end up writing off your car from an accident that wasn’t your doing. You just have to be mentally prepared for that.

[Type 47]

Remember, when you are racing, you might end up writing off your car from an accident that wasn’t your doing. You just have to be mentally prepared for that.

that's a good point.

I've only taken track insurance for 2-3 events out of over 100...of course no track insurance in real racing.

I've got enough experience to not worry so much about the other guy than worry about myself. but then that's what I don't know about real racing.

[mepstein]

I only bring it up because I’ve seen it in bike racing. I’ve raced hundreds of times and crashed a bunch. Only one time was my fault.
A strong rider that rode group training rides with us did his first race. Went down and broke his bike. He wanted the guy who caused the crash to pay for damage.Bike racing doesn’t work that way. He never raced again.
If I had the money, I’d be at the track tomorrow. Good luck and follow your dreams. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

[Charles Freeborn]

Look into renting a car rather than owning. Cost varies, but for a 3 series BMW it's in the 2-3 grand range for a weekend - soup to nuts.

As for owning - vintage is generally "no contact" ... sort of..

[jd74914]

Lemons and Chumpcar can be a lot of fun on a budget too if you're looking for a wheel-to-wheel feeling, but do not need high speed. Definitely a decent amount of sweat equity involved though.

[brant]

I say do it...
and I love racing a 914
so my vote (does not matter) would be to use the car you love other than a chump mazda or something...

vintage racing is lower contact for sure
you won't be at the sharp end of the pencil
but you will have an absolute blast still and plenty of people to race against in a small bore type class (EP)

you need to proceed with rules.
or you will regret what happens.
biggest mistake anyone ever makes when they think they "want to go racing"

you really should pick a club and pick a set of rules
before you start modifying the car
and read the rules 10 times... things like how the role cage is built, or what is legal in the motor...

I was the porsche eligibility person for about a dozen years out here.
can not remember the number of times an applicant argued with me because they chose not to follow rules, not to read... I guess that each time it happened they must have thought they were "special" and the rules didn't apply to them??????

so for example... someone built a 2056 and then tried to "argue" that it was a legal motor when it was not a legal displacement.

vintage is a bit more strict to rules, because the whole premises of vintage racing is to have the car prepared to the way it would have been legal back in the day.

there is always nasa, wrl, and other places to play with more lenient rules...
but that's not as fun to me as seeing a real gt40, or some other amazing real car on track.

I raced a street legal 914 for a lot of years in the past.
you can still have a lot of fun!!!!
and with out a huge budget

a 914/4 is really in a more competitive class than a small /6 can be.
small bore is made up of tons of british roadsters
MGB's, sprites, mini coopers, etc.

[914werke]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) You sound like youve got the itch to test your mettle.
Like Mark described, Ive done my decades of MC racing at the expert (never Pro) level.
At the pointy end it goes from fun & moderately expensive to.. OMFG!!, all consuming & in some cases fairly hairy.
It'll no longer be just the clock, you will be matching your commitment, skill & pocketbook against the next guy, who may not have the same constraints that you do.
If you cant imagine writing off you teener ... dont do it.

[BillJ]

Yes vintage is "better and cleaner" risk wise as there are many very expensive cars that owners really dont want to mess up. However it happens for sure. Plenty of sessions where the dollar value is well into 6 figures in terms of value. They tend to behave.

I do endurance racing in champcar and have to say THOSE guys are far less worried about trading paint. Can get very hairy out there especially in an 8 to 9 hour race all the way up to 24. Mistakes are made.

As mentioned can you stomach losing the car? If not then find another venue. Lemons for example is a cheap way to get involved and there are plenty of teams looking for guys to pay and drive. Your investment is time and money. Not your asset.

[campbellcj]

Depending what organizations and classes are available near you, a competitive time-attack / time-trial format might also be worth exploring.

[914werke]

Lemons and Chumpcar can be a lot of fun on a budget too if you're looking for a wheel-to-wheel feeling

Ive looked very hard at Lemons as their circus hits a track very near by (The Ridge), but its almost TOO popular.
Participation is limited & if you dont come up with a interesting ride & or a gimmick for your team, organizers can just say "thanks, but maybe next time" (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)

[BillJ]

I have done lemons a bit and champcar more recently. Champcar is nore serious with no Schtick needed. And better drivers.

[wndsrfr]

I love racing in vintage with HSR, VDCA, VRG even SVRA. It's better regulated than the HPDE events as the starts are staged based on lap times so there's a margin of safety from that. You didn't mention what car you're thinking of but if it's the Z06 then I'd recommend NASA with the level of talent that you've developed from the extensive HPDEs....

[GregAmy]

Having done "this racing thing" for over 35 years (amateur, pro, vintage/historics) I'd like to offer that, generally speaking, this takes some serious financial commitment, and in a lot of cases, significant time commitment.

If you want to touch your toes in the waters, Charles' suggestion to rent first is a good one. You can do that, basically, one of two ways:

- Rent a Chump/LeMons ride. Those are somewhat-affordable and the barriers to entry are lower (driving gear, which will cost you $1000-$2000 or more, depending on how fancy you need), and
- Renting a Spec Miata or Spec Racer Ford 3 to go through SCCA driving school ($2000 or more per weekend, depending on the renting org).

What you really DON'T want to do is begin spending money building (or buying) your own race car and all its supporting infrastructure (car, tools, parts, service items, wear items, truck, trailer, renting spaces to keep it all) and then find out it's not right for you.

Racing tends to be a "you're in, or you're out" kinda deal. But there's way to figure that out before you fully commit.

BTW, I started my "career" in the 80s with Showroom Stock and Improved Touring, and have been doing it since. But I have traded off a lot in my life to have had that experience.

Racing is a disease. How you mange those symptoms is in your hands. - GA

P.S., a mini-rant: with current level of driver aggression and disrepect increasing, I'm finding myself more and more pulling away from wheel-to-wheel competition and migrating more toward time trials (where you work together for best lap times) and historics (where the focus is more on demonstrating the cars and less on the competition). Those are both different attitudes. But neither scratches the "W2W" aggression itch particularly well...and I'm Ok with that.

[campbellcj]

Yet another part of the slippery slope to carefully consider is the moment you've got a non-streetable true 'race car' then you're talking about trailering, which then implies having a storage place at home or elsewhere, a viable tow vehicle, etc etc.

I stupidly for example have paid vastly more in offsite storage charges for my trailer than the thing is actually worth, but I don't have room for it at home.

[Type 47]

Look into renting a car rather than owning. Cost varies, but for a 3 series BMW it's in the 2-3 grand range for a weekend - soup to nuts.

As for owning - vintage is generally "no contact" ... sort of..

This sounds like the best option. you still have to pay for any damage.

Vintage has a 13/13 rule right?

[Type 47]

I say do it...
and I love racing a 914
so my vote (does not matter) would be to use the car you love other than a chump mazda or something...

vintage racing is lower contact for sure
you won't be at the sharp end of the pencil
but you will have an absolute blast still and plenty of people to race against in a small bore type class (EP)

you need to proceed with rules.
or you will regret what happens.
biggest mistake anyone ever makes when they think they "want to go racing"

you really should pick a club and pick a set of rules
before you start modifying the car
and read the rules 10 times... things like how the role cage is built, or what is legal in the motor...

I was the porsche eligibility person for about a dozen years out here.
can not remember the number of times an applicant argued with me because they chose not to follow rules, not to read... I guess that each time it happened they must have thought they were "special" and the rules didn't apply to them??????

so for example... someone built a 2056 and then tried to "argue" that it was a legal motor when it was not a legal displacement.

vintage is a bit more strict to rules, because the whole premises of vintage racing is to have the car prepared to the way it would have been legal back in the day.

there is always nasa, wrl, and other places to play with more lenient rules...
but that's not as fun to me as seeing a real gt40, or some other amazing real car on track.

I raced a street legal 914 for a lot of years in the past.
you can still have a lot of fun!!!!
and with out a huge budget

a 914/4 is really in a more competitive class than a small /6 can be.
small bore is made up of tons of british roadsters
MGB's, sprites, mini coopers, etc.

thanks for taking the time to explain this. I think I would have to start with buying a sorted car that fit into vintage, SCCA, or PCA racing.

A big commitment.

[Type 47]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) You sound like youve got the itch to test your mettle.
Like Mark described, Ive done my decades of MC racing at the expert (never Pro) level.
At the pointy end it goes from fun & moderately expensive to.. OMFG!!, all consuming & in some cases fairly hairy.
It'll no longer be just the clock, you will be matching your commitment, skill & pocketbook against the next guy, who may not have the same constraints that you do.
If you cant imagine writing off you teener ... dont do it.

I do have an itch to do some wheel to wheel racing, yes. Track events are like qualifying with rules but not competition. while i feel i'm at the pointy end of the stick for HPDE/open track events, but I never could get to that point in real racing.

I understand this issue about being willing to write off your racer...I've tracked (HPDE) my Z06 at a dozen tracks and ran about 14k hot lap miles.

I admire you guys that race...cost for doing an HPDE (towing 1k miles, fuel (truck&car), hotel, food, etc.) is expensive. I can only imagine what real racing is like.

[Type 47]

I love racing in vintage with HSR, VDCA, VRG even SVRA. It's better regulated than the HPDE events as the starts are staged based on lap times so there's a margin of safety from that. You didn't mention what car you're thinking of but if it's the Z06 then I'd recommend NASA with the level of talent that you've developed from the extensive HPDEs....

I would like to race a 914 or 944 but not sure how that would be after putting 14k track miles on a 505-666 hp Z06 (yeah had several engines in that beast).

NASA might be a good option for the Z06, since it wouldn't be legal anywhere with the aluminum frame.

[Type 47]

Having done "this racing thing" for over 35 years (amateur, pro, vintage/historics) I'd like to offer that, generally speaking, this takes some serious financial commitment, and in a lot of cases, significant time commitment.

If you want to touch your toes in the waters, Charles' suggestion to rent first is a good one. You can do that, basically, one of two ways:

- Rent a Chump/LeMons ride. Those are somewhat-affordable and the barriers to entry are lower (driving gear, which will cost you $1000-$2000 or more, depending on how fancy you need), and
- Renting a Spec Miata or Spec Racer Ford 3 to go through SCCA driving school ($2000 or more per weekend, depending on the renting org).

What you really DON'T want to do is begin spending money building (or buying) your own race car and all its supporting infrastructure (car, tools, parts, service items, wear items, truck, trailer, renting spaces to keep it all) and then find out it's not right for you.

Racing tends to be a "you're in, or you're out" kinda deal. But there's way to figure that out before you fully commit.

BTW, I started my "career" in the 80s with Showroom Stock and Improved Touring, and have been doing it since. But I have traded off a lot in my life to have had that experience.

Racing is a disease. How you mange those symptoms is in your hands. - GA

P.S., a mini-rant: with current level of driver aggression and disrepect increasing, I'm finding myself more and more pulling away from wheel-to-wheel competition and migrating more toward time trials (where you work together for best lap times) and historics (where the focus is more on demonstrating the cars and less on the competition). Those are both different attitudes. But neither scratches the "W2W" aggression itch particularly well...and I'm Ok with that.

wow. great info