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> Spotted In Germany, Anyone Know This Car?
Osnabruck914
post May 24 2023, 11:47 AM
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My wife snapped this pic in a roundabout as we were entering Friedrichshaven about two weeks ago. Apparently there was a car show in the area that day, as there were quite a lot of interesting cars on the road. This was the only 914 we saw on the road in three weeks in Germany. Anyone's here or know this car?

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technicalninja
post May 24 2023, 12:29 PM
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I though the round side marker light was a USA only thing.
Surprised to see that on a German based car.
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SirAndy
post May 24 2023, 12:38 PM
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QUOTE(technicalninja @ May 24 2023, 11:29 AM) *

I though the round side marker light was a USA only thing.
Surprised to see that on a German based car.

914's didn't last long in Germany, most of them have rusted into the ground.

Anything nice there on the road today is most likely a US west coast re-import.
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/huh.gif)
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Steve
post May 24 2023, 01:51 PM
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QUOTE(SirAndy @ May 24 2023, 11:38 AM) *

QUOTE(technicalninja @ May 24 2023, 11:29 AM) *

I though the round side marker light was a USA only thing.
Surprised to see that on a German based car.

914's didn't last long in Germany, most of them have rusted into the ground.

Anything nice there on the road today is most likely a US west coast re-import.
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/huh.gif)

Yep.. notice the ugly U.S. warts on the side. Not a requirement in Europe.
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Osnabruck914
post May 24 2023, 04:43 PM
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It's strange how tastes differ. I find the "warts" one of the nicest and most unique features of the 914. They exist because 1970s U.S. regulations mandated side markers, therefore they are part of 914 history and should be accepted for what they are, warts and all.

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Literati914
post May 24 2023, 05:22 PM
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Italian turn signals, the plot thickens! BTW, that’s Ol’ Blur Face .. good to see he’s still around (IMG:style_emoticons/default/lol-2.gif)
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Gustl
post May 24 2023, 09:47 PM
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due to the small front license plate and the "warts" I'd say it's an Italien car (IMG:style_emoticons/default/idea.gif)
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wonkipop
post May 25 2023, 03:31 AM
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QUOTE(Osnabruck914 @ May 24 2023, 04:43 PM) *

It's strange how tastes differ. I find the "warts" one of the nicest and most unique features of the 914. They exist because 1970s U.S. regulations mandated side markers, therefore they are part of 914 history and should be accepted for what they are, warts and all.

Osnabruck914


consider them as beauty spots! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

i like em. like you. pure circles.
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wonkipop
post May 25 2023, 03:33 AM
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QUOTE(technicalninja @ May 24 2023, 12:29 PM) *

I though the round side marker light was a USA only thing.
Surprised to see that on a German based car.


italy i believe. could be wrong.

also japan. definitely.

you yanks are not that special, (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)
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dt4
post May 25 2023, 11:20 AM
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I spotted this one at the Pau historic grandprix in the South West of France

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KELTY360
post May 25 2023, 03:38 PM
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QUOTE(dt4 @ May 25 2023, 09:20 AM) *

I spotted this one at the Pau historic grandprix in the South West of France

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That front fender looks so nice and pure without the warts. Just the way Porsche intended.
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Osnabruck914
post May 25 2023, 05:28 PM
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[/quote]

That front fender looks so nice and pure without the warts. Just the way Porsche intended.
[/quote]

OK, just playing devil's advocate, let's say Porsche DID intend to and put warts on 914s originally. Then what would you say now, seeing one without warts?

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KELTY360
post May 25 2023, 08:09 PM
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[quote name='Osnabruck914' date='May 25 2023, 03:28 PM' post='3079609']
[/quote]

That front fender looks so nice and pure without the warts. Just the way Porsche intended.
[/quote]

OK, just playing devil's advocate, let's say Porsche DID intend to and put warts on 914s originally. Then what would you say now, seeing one without warts?

Osnabruck914
[/quote]

I'd say that the fender shows a graceful curvature that isn't apparent with the wart. To my eye there's no comparison, which is why I had them removed when my car was painted.

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wonkipop
post May 26 2023, 03:47 PM
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[quote name='Osnabruck914' date='May 25 2023, 05:28 PM' post='3079609']
[/quote]

That front fender looks so nice and pure without the warts. Just the way Porsche intended.
[/quote]

OK, just playing devil's advocate, let's say Porsche DID intend to and put warts on 914s originally. Then what would you say now, seeing one without warts?

Osnabruck914
[/quote]

i don't think you are playing devil's advocate.

the USA side marker regulations were implemented in 1967.
there would have been advance notice of the reg with USA domestic and import manufacturers. the 914 would have definitely been designed with side markers in mind from the get go and also with those other countries requiring a side indicator light (turn signal) which is what the j market and italy market cars are. had the 914 for instance been built in a RHD version for australia it would also have required a set up similar to japan.
two color front indicator/parking light lenses and a J spec beauty spot.

so i believe the side markers are an original design intent - not an afterthought tack on.

the use of pure circles is to me consistent with the german no nonsense functional attitude to design.

the same thing happened with 924s.
you guys got round side marker lights on the 924s.
only difference from a 914 was they became flush mounted.
they probably could have been flush mounted in the 914 except you could not do a flush mounted indicator unit for japan or italy. porsche designed a universal front light that could either be an indicator or a usa required side marker. the side marker lens was all that was different.

later in the 924s the side indicator regs in japan (and australia) and possibly italy had changed to a new position behind the front wheel on the side of the car. our 924s had that side indicator. i believe USA 924s do not have that indicator light. so use of a universal light position for both a side marker and side indicator was no longer possible.

911s are the same as 924s in that regard.

australian and japanese lighting regulations on cars parallel each other and have since the early 1960s. the japanese "invasion" started here. australia was the test market for the japanese before they assaulted the USA full scale.

here ends the potted history side lamps. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

point being. the side markers are an intended design element.
consistent with german design school thinking at that time.


-----

and if you happened to live in south africa your car would cop weird little white relflector lenses and rear reflector lenses which were very small and circular. car manufactures had no room to move on those. they had to be circular, had to be a specific size (quite small - about 40mm diam) and mounted within a very tight dimensional envelope.

if you ever find a south african built VW they all have them.

chevrolets for the SA market were all built here in australia back in the 60s and 70s.
they were rebadged holdens. they all had the weirdo reflectors. which could not help but looked tacked on. but again not an afterthought so much as a mandated requirement with no room to move.
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wonkipop
post May 26 2023, 03:56 PM
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as a afterthought to above, it may have been intended that the 914 side marker for the USA was to be flush originally. it could have been and met the regs.'

but it could not be flush in J or italy.

its possible the cost cutting in relation to the design and manufacture of the 914 just before it went into production (and is well documented) led VW or porsche to adopt a universal design (in terms of the base plate and lamp mounting) to save $.

that would be my guess.

i should add that the side indicator that italy, japan and australia had early on from that time later became a standardised universal regulation throughout europe. the cars have had them ever since in the rest of the world. these days it appears it has migrated in most cars to the edge of the rear view mirrors. but its still there.
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KELTY360
post May 26 2023, 11:56 PM
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[quote name='wonkipop' date='May 26 2023, 01:47 PM'

point being. the side markers are an intended design element.
consistent with german design school thinking at that time.

[/quote]

If that were true, why were cars in the country of origin designed without the warts? I believe they were added to satisfy regulations of countries which required them. The question kind of gets down to whether they were 'deleted' when not needed or 'added' when they were needed. It doesn't seem like the Germans were inclined to add elements unless necessary.
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wonkipop
post May 27 2023, 01:51 AM
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QUOTE(KELTY360 @ May 26 2023, 11:56 PM) *

QUOTE(wonkipop @ May 26 2023, 01:47 PM)
'deleted'[/b] when not needed or 'added' when they were needed. It doesn't seem like the Germans were inclined to add elements unless necessary.


i agree.
their basic instinct is minimalism.
they stole it from the japanese in the early 20th century when they became aware of japanese architecture.

mies van der rohe the great german (or should i say chicago) architect needs no introduction or further explanation.

they didn't require the side indicators in germany at that time - is the answer to why its not on the german cars.
but they did require the two tone euro lenses on the front.
which in my humble opinion are "impure" and somewhat non minimalist but nevertheless the min requirement for regulations.
i offer that. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

of interest.
anything VW or japanese is not really a country of origin car by the 1960s.
both countries owe their economic miracle to selling products in the USA to a market that exceeded their own by at least a factor of 10.

additionally the 914 was a pan european car.
the common market or the EU (take your pick) was in full swing.
italy required the side indicators.
france its peculiar yellow headlights and yellow rear reversing lights.
sweden had some special requirements for which there were additional blobs on the bumpers for windscreen washers.

and lets not even mention california------for what it did to the engines.
but i think the figure was at that time that 2/3 of the porsches produced were sold in the USA and 50% of those were in california. making it the single biggest market and economy that porsche sold product in.

so all i am trying to say is i am sure they placed a good deal of effort into thinking about the side markers in both aesthetic and engineering terms.

and came up with something typically german. a nicely placed piece of pure geometry.
something very frank, very functional but to my eye not at all ugly.

anyway - i can see why you all fit euro lenses and wipe the "warts" off in the USA.
its for the same reason i have kept my USA lenses and beauty spots on my car in australia. i was perhaps not so focussed on the warts as i was on the pure orange front lenses. the last thing i wanted was those "ugly" split euro lenses. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)
i hid the parker light bulbs in the headlight units and got away with it. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

we all make judgements.
the main thing is we all made the judgement of owning a 914. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beer.gif)


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wonkipop
post May 27 2023, 02:06 AM
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ps @KELTY360

i see you like your pure orange lenses on the front too.
nice...... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

i am going to accuse you of producing the most beautiful and pure version of the design. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)
of course it could not have been sold anywhere legally. but who cares. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beer.gif)
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wonkipop
post May 27 2023, 02:35 AM
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@KELTY360

i don't want to flog the subject.
but since i love warts and pure orange front lenses and your car is an interesting fiction - and i am very interested professionally in german design and i might add japanese design you have forced me to say something about the germans and.......
yourselves, that is americans (who i confess i dearly love as a country, i mean f#4k england!!>) its not all minimalism as some kind of purism?

i give you this.
i consider it the greatest piece of machinery ever designed.
if i could hand out a design award for the single best thing ever made, i would give it to this (but it would be a close contest with the pepper grinder).
(i have given up on the F117 as @Van B has privately scolded me i should never meet my heroes as i will only be very disappointed (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) ).

a flying gattlin gun that can only be shot down with extreme difficulty. it can take a million bullets and keep flying.
a strange mix of 19th century american military technology and captured german WW2 technology.

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looks a bit like this?

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and whats that.
desperate german functional thinking with their backs against the wall.
but it makes so much sense.

why even screw around with fixing an engine.
just rip it off and put a new one on when they only last 8 hours anyway.
and ever since, just about every civilian jet plane has an engine in a nacelle that looks just like this beauty.

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so the warts to me are just this kind of german thinking.
really straight up.
but they can't help themselves, its got to kind of look like what it is.
and then its just stuck on!

the old warthog is the most german thing the yanks have ever made.
and what a beauty.
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Van B
post May 27 2023, 08:25 AM
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Fun fact wonki, engineers had to redesign the gun mounts because the gun was too accurate. During diving fire, there were too many shot through shot instances. So, they added a bit of wobble to the gun to create some dispersion.
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