Looks like the 911 will be the last man standing. Options

[Unobtanium-inc]

In the future Porsche line-up, the 911 will stand alone.

https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-tran...els-2023-07-26/

[Dave_Darling]

Of course, it's a bogus etymology. Just like the "For Unlawful Carnal Knowledge" one. Both amusing stories, both full of Stow High In Transport. Both words are older than the events that purport to be their origins.

--DD

[technicalninja]

I always thought it was Fornication Under Consent of the King.

That's the best one I've heard of for shit, and it has the ring of truth to it.

So many of our word today are mash-ups from the different world powers that held dominance.

Posh IMO came from Port outbound, starboard home.

British passengers on ships heading from England to India before the advent of air conditioning.

This was supposable the cooler side of the ship to be on.

I don't know if it's true either. None of us do...

You guys were talking about cargo ships burning and I was just trying to add a bit of humor to the discussion.

I believe there were ships lost to methane explosions from the early transport of dried dung in lower holds. The article I read mentioned LLoyds of London as a source of data.

Might be complete BS as well...

[wonkipop]

Cargo ship with over 2,00 cars including 500 EVs loaded at Bremerhaven, Germany is on fire in the North Sea. No news on makes of cars. 1 crewman dead.

Earlier this month a car carrier burned in the Port of Newark. No electric cars were on board. 2 died.

Fires on cargo ships are an issue that is older then automobiles by several hundred years. We are constantly working to make our ships and the cargo they carry safer because its good for business and good for society as a whole.

I don't find a fire on a cargo ship to be a valid argument against electric vehicles.

Zach

I wasn't making an argument against electric vehicles; I was reporting on a fire on a car carrier loaded probably with German cars. Porsches? A crewman reported the fire started in an EV and it isn't yet under control. Just the facts as reported, no conclusions.

latest one burning.
its just off the coast of holland at present.
they are trying to tow it out of the shipping lanes.

confirmed. ev fire.
400EVs on board.
about 5,000 cars in total i believe.
infra red image.



its a bit of a problem.
yes petrol cars burn. mostly older ones? and lots more of them on road with suss fuel lines etc. but they burn when they are running.

these f#ckers burn turned off.

personally i would not have one in my garage, connected to my house.
nor would i live in an apartment building with these parked in basement garage.

i'm just saying.
batteries are fine. but the lithium ion batteries are not good tech.
they will get past this tech. but its not actually correct technology yet.
it will be.

anyway. i don't want one. i don't wan't to park next to one in the street.
its just too random? sure the odds are low. but..........

and i speak as an enthusiast of the original burner ----- the 914.
but they didn't sit in your garage and explode at midnight. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

and as to car carriers burning.
i am a designer.
i get how car carriers are set up for fire regs.
its based on C02 flooding (previously Halon until ozone depletion came in) and its based on horizontal fire separation of decks and top down sprinklers.
none of which as measures can suppress a battery fire or a chain of battery fires.

same goes for your house or an apartment building you live in.
or if you are real fancy and live in an apartment building with a car stacker.

i am only a professional building designer. but if there are any fireman on this website i am sure they will chime in and back me up.

this stuff is truly problematic. and with accelerating EV take up its a real problem.

and you can solve problems.
but don't pretend for one minute its not serious, as a problem. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

[wonkipop]

I always thought it was Fornication Under Consent of the King.

That's the best one I've heard of for shit, and it has the ring of truth to it.

So many of our word today are mash-ups from the different world powers that held dominance.

Posh IMO came from Port outbound, starboard home.

British passengers on ships heading from England to India before the advent of air conditioning.

This was supposable the cooler side of the ship to be on.

I don't know if it's true either. None of us do...

You guys were talking about cargo ships burning and I was just trying to add a bit of humor to the discussion.

I believe there were ships lost to methane explosions from the early transport of dried dung in lower holds. The article I read mentioned LLoyds of London as a source of data.

Might be complete BS as well...

that is the commonly held explanation of "posh" down here mate. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

and australia is the former epicentre of every cringing forelock tuggin bit of insecurity when it comes to the mutha country. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

poms. variation on the theme. englishmen stranded in the prison colony.
prisoner of her/his majesty.

the general argument is correct. ships were always going off due to their cargo.
or in the case of apollo 13 while happily sailing to the moon happening to denotate their cargo of precious oxygen simply by giving it a bit of a stir with a spoon.

anyway. someone is going to have to figure out how to put out a battery fire in an ev in a jam packed cargo hold or we are all going to be paying a huge hefty premium surcharge to buy our ev cars. esp down here. all of them now arrive by ship since we unwisely decided to de-industrialise. i can't even figure out what people do down here anymore. they don't make anything. they just drive to bunnings (the big hardware store chain) and get chinese screws and bolts and assemble crap for their garden decorations?

[dirk2056]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif) How true (IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) The longer you stay more you spend just think if they put in beer garden bubba food and beer you might stay long enough to get 100% charge.

[technicalninja]

My youngest son Michael was a Track Marshall for MSR (Motorsport Ranch) up in Cresson for 3 years.
One of his jobs was fire suppression.

The little baby Li-on batteries make a car fire un-controllable. Usually take entire car and the garage it's parked in with it.

Best way to combat a Li-on fire is to bury it.

Only thing worse is a magnesium fire but that stuff is HARD to ignite in the first place and is never the source of the fire. It's the second stage of the fire.

The batteries are the source, for no good reason.

These batteries weigh less then 5 lbs and they wipe the car out. 100 lbs + only adds to the yield.

Ya'll will get a chuckle.

The nick name for Porsches (mostly 911s) is "fire lizard" for the guys at MSR.

They slither off the track and catch the grass on fire...

Car doesn't usually burn but they are pyromaniacs for the environment.

[930cabman]

Of course, it's a bogus etymology. Just like the "For Unlawful Carnal Knowledge" one. Both amusing stories, both full of Stow High In Transport. Both words are older than the events that purport to be their origins.

--DD

+1

[thomasotten]

Imagine a parking garage with 500 vehicles, and just one EV decides to ignite, and then all the chaos with people trying to get out through the bottle neck.

Mercedes EV destroys home

Porsche EV Devaluation

I hear from a car handler in Germany, who works for Porsche, is that people don't want to buy elektrischen Porsches. But when a customer wants to buy a 911 or other petrol car, and they give a Taycan in as trade, they must take it in. But, they are hard to sell used, and in his words, he had 10 used Taycans standing there which noone wants.

[VaccaRabite]

I fully agree the Lithium ion batteries are bad tech. I suspect they will phase out shortly or be legislated away. Battery tech will improve. It already has with the LiFePo4 tech which is MUCH safer concerning fire or explosion.

I literally loose sleep over all the little Li-ion batteries in the house in forgotten kids toys. :-/

Zach

[wonkipop]

check out the latest on the fremantle highway.
the ship that was burning off holland that they finally dregged to port.

too dangerous to get the electric cars out of it that are below the decks that burned.
full of electric bmws, mercs and vw group cars.

the one full of porsches that sunk in the middle of the atlantic a little while back took its problems to the bottom with itself..........but not this one. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kqvm2HEp4Uk

[TomE]

I worked in the electric utility industry for 30 years. Our electric grid can't handle all the AC units when we have a prolonged heatwave. One major power supply in the midwest going down will cascade the entire east coast with no power. We came very close a couple of times. Our grid can not even begin to handle EV replacements for every vehicle. The worst part is there is absolutely no reason to change them over to EV.

[sixaddict]

So EV is supposed to help the environment…..as long as you don’t consider the mining of stuff that goes into the batteries, disposal of batteries AND electrical capacity to charge them. Sorry but hard to buy into the “story”……..
Oh let’s burn some condos down with garage fires. …….seriously?

[type2man]

Car companies will sell the cars that consumers buy. Remember that...

[mate914]

I don't agree with that. The free market use to work that way. Now the car companies are told how to built the new cars "EPA". Ford did not want to do and or lose all that money on electric cars"700 million". They were forced into it. Not by the consumers at all. I have a 10 year old Chevy 1500 with the frame rusted to the point it wont pass inspection. Consumers do not want that either, but chevy does.
Don't get me wrong here ... Electric cars are great. I just don't want it shoved down my throat like it is along with a few other social sins like pride.

Matt

Car companies will sell the cars that consumers buy. Remember that...

[mate914]

I was wrong Ford lost 4.5 billion.

I don't agree with that. The free market use to work that way. Now the car companies are told how to built the new cars "EPA". Ford did not want to do and or lose all that money on electric cars"700 million". They were forced into it. Not by the consumers at all. I have a 10 year old Chevy 1500 with the frame rusted to the point it wont pass inspection. Consumers do not want that either, but chevy does.
Don't get me wrong here ... Electric cars are great. I just don't want it shoved down my throat like it is along with a few other social sins like pride.

Matt

Car companies will sell the cars that consumers buy. Remember that...

[campbellcj]

I'm a fan/convert as well but totally agree that battery tech and power generation needs to keep progressing and in many areas the power grid needs serious maintenance and upgrading. Here in the LA burbs I have never so far in 2 years needed to charge my Tesla away from home, and it's been working out great for commuting and errands. Looking forward to what Porsche does with EV sportscar platforms ie the new Cayman. That being said I don't see fully giving up combustion engines in my lifetime and I hope synthetic or hybrid fuel tech also moves ahead so there's less reason for the politicians to try confiscating our ICE vehicles.

[930cabman]

I worked in the electric utility industry for 30 years. Our electric grid can't handle all the AC units when we have a prolonged heatwave. One major power supply in the midwest going down will cascade the entire east coast with no power. We came very close a couple of times. Our grid can not even begin to handle EV replacements for every vehicle. The worst part is there is absolutely no reason to change them over to EV.

Tom only has 30 years experience, he just might know a thing or two.

Problem is, nobody is listening.

EV may have advantages, but we do need to look at the whole picture

[930cabman]

I was wrong Ford lost 4.5 billion.

I don't agree with that. The free market use to work that way. Now the car companies are told how to built the new cars "EPA". Ford did not want to do and or lose all that money on electric cars"700 million". They were forced into it. Not by the consumers at all. I have a 10 year old Chevy 1500 with the frame rusted to the point it wont pass inspection. Consumers do not want that either, but chevy does.
Don't get me wrong here ... Electric cars are great. I just don't want it shoved down my throat like it is along with a few other social sins like pride.

Matt

Car companies will sell the cars that consumers buy. Remember that...

$4.5 billion probably chump change for Mr Ford

My guess, this will all pass

[technicalninja]

I'm a 40-year experience gear head who loves hydrocarbon burning engines...

I believe the electrics are the way of the future.
Thier torque curve makes them stupid fun to drive.
They are quiet and emit basically nothing during their operation.
They have greater design variants. By the time the motors move into the wheels you can have a basically flat chassis that has all of the weight low.
Sky's the limit as to what you put on said chassis.

Two things have got to happen to make it work.

Electricity production will need to double or better. MSR reactors may be a path along with lots of re-newables. I like solar panels too.

Someone need to come up with a way to store electromagnetic energy is huge amounts, with zero fire risk, in a lightweight container that can accept and discharge large amounts of energy without effort.
The person who comes up with this "power cell" will be the next richest person on the planet.

Now, you're going to pry the keys to my ICE powered vehicles from my cold dead hands..
But,
Having an electric car for appliance car duty is perfectly fine in my book.

[vitamin914]

Now, you're going to pry the keys to my ICE powered vehicles from my cold dead hands..
But,
Having an electric car for appliance car duty is perfectly fine in my book.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) 100%


My refrigerator runs on electricity and it too is an appliance.

ICE vehicles are like sex - the noise and the smells add to the experience. EVs are a bit too clinical.