oil pump cover ?, are they flatsurfaced Options

[brant]

hi all.
forgive my ignorance.
the time I had a big oil pump it was a melling with a flat cover that fit over it.. (you know the leaky one)

so this go around I bought a different brand pump that comes with no cover and the instructions indicate that you re-use the flat cover.

well guess what.
I took the blower housing off and this 1975 2.0 does not have a flat cover. the pump is made into the cover and I won't be able to re-use this cover.

what gives.
Is my set up standard for a 75?
do any years have a flat cover?
do I have to get a melling instead? or produce my own cover?

I have a 1.7 yet to tear up and I'm hoping it has a flat cover on its oil pump... but didn't get that far along yet.

anyone care to shed some light?

tia
brant

[Jake Raby]

Sounds like you have wither a Melling or Modified TI pump maybe one of mine) anyway- this is the cover you need.

http://www.aircooledtechnology.com/store/p...&cat=255&page=1

No factory engine had a flat cover, except the TI...

[brant]

Thanks again Jake.

and the pump I bought from my 914 T4 race shop is a
Schadek. It looks like a decent pump. aluminum too, so may have less sealing issues. Although box says made in Brazil.

thanks again Jake.
brant

[Cap'n Krusty]

What's wrong with the pump you already have in the engine? For a stockish motor, they're fine, and in 32 years of 914 engine work, I've NEVER seen one fail, or even wear out enough to matter. The Cap'n

[brant]

Captain,

the chassis has a front mounted oil cooler with -12 lines to and fro.

I ran a motor in it last year without the high volume pump, and when the motor died I wondered if the lack of high volume contributed to its death.

so I wanted the high volume this go around for peace of mind.

brant

[Aaron Cox]

QUOTE (brant @ Aug 16 2005, 02:56 PM)

Captain, the chassis has a front mounted oil cooler with -12 lines to and fro. I ran a motor in it last year without the high volume pump, and when the motor died I wondered if the lack of high volume contributed to its death. so I wanted the high volume this go around for peace of mind. brant

any pressure drop with the -12 lines????
im preparing to run my SS -10 lines with my AL 38mm pump.....

[brant]

Aaron,

I think so.
Its hard to tell.
the motor was not rebuilt and not fresh.

It was the 72 motor that came out of my vintage -6 chassis.

I drove it in the chassis for 3 months with no oil pressure guage and had no problems (but also no front cooler)

when I put it into my 74 chassis, with an oil pressure gauge.. I noticed lots of pressure drop.

but it was a tired motor so how can I absolutely say that it was due to the front cooler.

I have always run the melling pump on any motor previously in that 74 chassis with the front cooler.

when the 72 motor blew up... I questioned if it did so from what reason.

now I'm putting a 75 motor into that chassis, and I decided not to tempt fate... and to put the high volume pump back in (as I had been instructed to do way way back by my race shop)

brant

[brant]

Jake,

if you see this again.
do I need longer studs with your cover?
my new pump is thicker than my old and the studs are looking short already.
can I buy studs from you also?

I'll try your commerce site.
thanks
brant

[Aaron Cox]

QUOTE (brant @ Aug 16 2005, 08:50 PM)

Jake, if you see this again. do I need longer studs with your cover? my new pump is thicker than my old and the studs are looking short already. can I buy studs from you also? I'll try your commerce site. thanks brant

I had to buy longer studs for my thick 38mm geared pump....

local metric place had them....
i can get em for you, if you know what you need.

AA

[Jake Raby]

Yes you need longer studs... I have them on the store site under hardware.

[brant]

Jake,

couldn't you reply any faster... sheesshhh.

ok tomorrow when I'm on a secure computer I will place my order.
thank you!

brant

[brant]

Ok...I'm stupid.
anybody know where on jake's site to find those longer studs.

and after I do find them... Aaron, do you remember how long you bought?

I don't even know how long stock is, but I'm guessing about 1/2 inch longer than stock.

brant

[Aaron Cox]

QUOTE (brant @ Aug 17 2005, 07:40 AM)

Ok...I'm stupid. anybody know where on jake's site to find those longer studs. and after I do find them... Aaron, do you remember how long you bought? I don't even know how long stock is, but I'm guessing about 1/2 inch longer than stock. brant

IIRC 35mm length....

not sure... M8's right?

AA

[brant]

?

bump...
I want to place my order but am not sure

brant

[dmenche914]

Never ever use the "flat" cover for the type I oil pumps. The "flat" cover might be flat when you measure it, but believe you me, it will not be flat once you torque down the four cover nuts. Torquing them down wil cause the "flat" cover to bow up in the center. I have confirmed this with dial indicator measurements. I forgot the exact value but in was in the order fo several thousandsth of an inch, well within the tolerance busting amount.

If you require a cover for the melling, any other aftermarket or stock Type I pump, be sure to get an OEM VW cover. The OEM VW cover does not bow when installed!!!

The stock Type I cover from VW has raised edges on all four sides, this raised edge prevents bending of the cover when torqued down (as measured by me) the plain "flat" cover with no raised sides (ie ribs) will result in oil pressure loss, the stock VW cover solved this problem. Some grinding away of one of the raised edges was required to fit on my Type IV engine, but the OEM VW cover still remianed dead flat when torqued.

The flat cover which is essentially a plate with four holes for mounting should be shitcanned, it is not good.

trust me on this or go get your dial indicator, set it to measure the center of the cover plate on the engine, and start torquing the cover down, you will notice that once the bolts begin to tighten down, the enter of the cover plate will reverse direction, and start to bow upwards, away from the pump. Repeat the test with the stock VW cover with the raised edges, and you will notice zero bowing of the plate as you torque it down, that's the fact of the matter.

good luck

PS be sure you are using the correct supper thin VW gasket under the cover. It is much thinner than the one used under the pump body. The gasket will determine the gap between the cover and the pump gears, to thick a gasket, and the clearance gets too big.

[brant]

dmenche914,

do you know what pitch and length of stud I will need...
what is stock

(I'll do stock plus 1/2 inch)

not that I don't trust you aaron!, just want to make sure that I'm measuring twice and buying once.

tia

[Jake Raby]

8mmX1.25X35mm

Dave is absolutely right about the stock VW cover and the flexing issues- I have noted it many times.