Front Suspension, Do or Delay Options

[DennisV]

How critical is it to replace the bushings and related from suspension components on a car that has sat indoors for 20 years? Is the worst case the handling a little sloppy? Or am I looking at high risk for being stranded or in an accident?

I have been working to get our 1970 914-6 back on the road. Safely and reliably of course.
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/driving.gif)

I have very limited windows to work on the car. It is in another state. So to avoid this becoming a never ending project, I have tried not to slide into a full restoration. I have focused on:

• Engine rebuild
• Transmission rebuild
• Brake system replacement
• Fuel system replacement

I have access to a lift where the car currently is, and the brakes are off. So I'm real tempted to do the front suspension now. That said, if everything went great that will add another few months before the car would hit the road due to the distance and how frequently I get access to the car.

[technicalninja]

If I was some distance from the car I'd take it all home with me and restore the individual pieces before taking it back to the car. This will leave it stuck on the lift (or jack stands).

20-year storage will not normally waste suspension bushings.
30-year-old worn out bushings will still be worn out after 20 years of storage...

If the bushings were really only 20 years old, I'd probably try to use them (at least to get the car through the first couple of thousand miles of de-bugging).

If they were 50 I'd change them before returning to service.

Bad bushings will not create an accident. All of the 914 bushings are trapped.
They might make the car undriveable at speed but you could drive it around the neighborhood to test other parts of the car.

I'm resurrecting a 74 that has sat for 3 decades. It's showing 31K and that number is believable on this car.

Doing all the bushings in the rear before driving car. Fronts will wait till it has some mileage on it. My rear bushings looked like they would have worked fine for a bit.

Ancient rubber will deteriorate rapidly once returned to service. It will get the fronts done over this winter.

You are a 914/6 cars more valuable and your parts are older than mine (if they haven't been changed already).

I'd be more worried about wheel bearings, ball joints and tie rod ends. Those can ruin your day in a big hurry...

The rear wheel bearings on my car were wiped out. It got all new bearings, brakes. and hydraulics all the way around. Anything rubber based has been replaced regarding the brake system.

Fuel system should be completely re-built/inspected.
Take a big fire extinguisher on all of your initial test drives.
If you have the extinguisher "ready to go" you will never have a fire...

Tires are another thing that I don't trust at all over 7-8 years old.

Hope this helps.

Rick

[mlindner]

Like Rick said, pull it off and take home. The process of redoing the front and rear suspension is pretty simple and fun. Best, Mark

[windforfun]

"Tires are another thing that I don't trust at all over 7-8 years old."

I'm still running on 23 year old Sears Guardsman (Michelin) tires. I had the car out today for a long spin at peaks of around 90 mph. Plenty of tread left with no bulges. Leave it to the French for superior technology. The car has been garaged all of its rescued life. Go figure.

Life is full of myths & little science. Most people don't know what they're talking about when it comes to reliability statistics.

I'm now going to watch Charles Bronson in "Death Wish."

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/screwy.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/screwy.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/screwy.gif)

[technicalninja]

"Tires are another thing that I don't trust at all over 7-8 years old."

I'm still running on 23 year old Sears Guardsman (Michelin) tires. I had the car out today for a long spin at peaks of around 90 mph. Plenty of tread left with no bulges. Leave it to the French for superior technology. The car has been garaged all of its rescued life. Go figure.

Life is full of myths & little science. Most people don't know what they're talking about when it comes to reliability statistics.

I'm now going to watch Charles Bronson in "Death Wish."

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/screwy.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/screwy.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/screwy.gif)

That's GROSS NEGLIGENCE!

You can kill yourself; I don't give a shit.
It's the family of 5 in the minivan you take with you that bothers me...

No national tire chain will touch or INFLATE a tire over 10 years old.
At 10 years if the tires have been kept out of the sun in a garage they can still be used at low speeds (sub 50 mph) and can be initially used during the resurrection's "drive and identify any problems stage" but they should not be "returned to service".

At 23 they should be thrown away!!!!

The ONLY reason to keep a 2-decade old tire is for static display because the tire is no-longer available.
The owner of such relics will have a set of wheels with modern tires on them to actually move the car...

23 year old tires and 90 MPH on a public road!!!

You do have a "Death Wish".

[windforfun]

Thanks for the interesting reply. I appreciate your concern. I only drive on the back roads. These tires just keep on going. You're right, it's time for new tires, but I don't want my Pedrini wheels damaged by a tire jockey who can't handle them correctly.

I'll let you know when I crash & burn. I'll order some new Michelins tomorrow. I don't like Pirellis. They're too soft. A friend of mine had one explode when he was mounting them.

Thanks for the feedback indeed.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/beer3.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beer3.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beer3.gif)

[worn]

Thanks for the interesting reply. I appreciate your concern. I only drive on the back roads. These tires just keep on going. You're right, it's time for new tires, but I don't want my Pedrini wheels damaged by a tire jockey who can't handle them correctly.

I'll let you know when I crash & burn. I'll order some new Michelins tomorrow. I don't like Pirellis. They're too soft. A friend of mine had one explode when he was mounting them.

Thanks for the feedback indeed.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/beer3.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beer3.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beer3.gif)

I kinda agree. That old, and you have to be careful not to risk others. The old rock hard tires are a way of honing skid responses. On a track. And be careful getting to the track too. It isn’t cut and dried.

[technicalninja]

I too, hate the current crop of tire monkeys...

If I had a set of straight rare wheels, I'd mount each wheel on one of the front hubs and take a video of it spinning.
I'd reference both beads with a pointer held closely to show run out and I'd video the faces and the back sides of each wheel. I'd place a piece of masking tape with a number on it to denote each wheel.

This would both prove to me and maybe later to the manager of the tire store that the wheels were straight when I brought them in.

I might speak with the manager before I had them mounted and advise of the fragility of the wheels. This might backfire and the tire shop might decline the job.

I haven't taken the whole car to a tire shop in a long, long, time.

I DO NOT trust the monkeys to mount the wheels properly and you will not see a torque wrench in 90% of the chain stores today.
They use an IFFY torque limiting extension that is not good enough in my book.

I had some warranty work done on my wife's Odyssey once and the Honda dealer tech completely blew the mounting of one of her wheels.
Dangerously blew the mounting...

From that point I always put a note on the steering wheel requesting no further work being OKd on the car except the warranty work being done.

I don't trust anyone but ME to put my families wheels on their cars...

[rjames]

"Tires are another thing that I don't trust at all over 7-8 years old."

I'm still running on 23 year old Sears Guardsman (Michelin) tires. I had the car out today for a long spin at peaks of around 90 mph. Plenty of tread left with no bulges. Leave it to the French for superior technology. The car has been garaged all of its rescued life. Go figure.

Life is full of myths & little science. Most people don't know what they're talking about when it comes to reliability statistics.

I'm now going to watch Charles Bronson in "Death Wish."

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/screwy.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/screwy.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/screwy.gif)

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/WTF.gif)

[Jamie]

"Tires are another thing that I don't trust at all over 7-8 years old."

I'm still running on 23 year old Sears Guardsman (Michelin) tires. I had the car out today for a long spin at peaks of around 90 mph. Plenty of tread left with no bulges. Leave it to the French for superior technology. The car has been garaged all of its rescued life. Go figure.

Life is full of myths & little science. Most people don't know what they're talking about when it comes to reliability statistics.

I'm now going to watch Charles Bronson in "Death Wish."

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/screwy.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/screwy.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/screwy.gif)

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/WTF.gif)

DON"T be an IDIOT!! Get new tires while you're still alive to drive! I've run Michelin tires for more than 60 yrs. and know they are prone to dry rot in old age, even if stored away from any UV sources and daylight. Look at the cracks on the side walls, and delight in the safer traction and softer ride with new rubber. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/aktion035.gif)

[BillJ]

Edited as Not constructive.

Glad you are getting new tires (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[barefoot]

By all means replace at least the rear bushing in the front a-arms. That will have sagged to the point that the torsion bar is rubbing on the ID of the arm, loosing paint protection thus leading to corrosion and torsion bar fracture. The front bushing bears much less static load so they don't sag.
It happened to me, came out one morning & the car sat low in front on one side. Pulled the bar out and it had fractured starting at a corrosion pit. Back then new bars were pretty cheap, not so much now. Slight corrosion can be buffed out & re-coated, saving the bar.

Now get to work & have some fun (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beer.gif)

[DennisV]

I'd be more worried about wheel bearings, ball joints and tie rod ends. Those can ruin your day in a big hurry...

Thanks for the suggestions and background.

I've already addressed front wheel bearings. New rear wheel bearings will go in as soon as my trailing arms are back from powder coat.

Anyone have experience with URO ball joints, or URO in general? They are 1/3 of the Genuine Porsche part. I'm assuming you get what you pay for.

Anyone know who is really the OEM of tie rod ends? One place says Lemfoerder. Another Febi. I guess it's possible they both are. They are less than half Genuine Porsche.

[DennisV]

By all means replace at least the rear bushing in the front a-arms. That will have sagged to the point that the torsion bar is rubbing on the ID of the arm, loosing paint protection thus leading to corrosion and torsion bar fracture.

Thanks for sharing. Had not read about this. Are you referring to #22 in the parts catalog?

While in this section, I see a note that front stabilizer is 73-. Is that correct? No front stabilizer on 914-6? Ours currently has one. I assume that since I removed the rear I should remove the front as well. If removed, what goes in its place? Is there a plug for the mount?

[rhodyguy]

Is #22 the foam disc that goes on the torsion rod? ICRS. That screw shown holding the Sway Bar housing/bushing to the wheel well is incorrect.

[technicalninja]

By all means replace at least the rear bushing in the front a-arms. That will have sagged to the point that the torsion bar is rubbing on the ID of the arm, loosing paint protection thus leading to corrosion and torsion bar fracture.

Thanks for sharing. Had not read about this. Are you referring to #22 in the parts catalog?

While in this section, I see a note that front stabilizer is 73-. Is that correct? No front stabilizer on 914-6? Ours currently has one. I assume that since I removed the rear I should remove the front as well. If removed, what goes in its place? Is there a plug for the mount?

The bushings are not broken out in that diagram. They are located at each end of the A-arms. The front are under the two flange brackets directly behind #12 and the rear are under the single loop bracket at the back end (#9 is closest).

If you're going through the BS of changing the rear, you also change the front.
Things that should be looked at are:

A-arm bushings. change

Torsion bars: inspect closely, clean up, maybe paint. threads available

Ball joints: change unless perfect. Many threads have been written about ball joint BS.

Tie rod ends, both inner and outer change unless perfect. Most folks go to a "turbo tie rod set up" but I'd probably keep a real 6 the original design. The inners might just require the internal rubber piece (if just that is available).

Brake stuff/wheel bearings: all new

Struts, inspect, clean, paint or replace.
Strut top rubber mount: replace unless perfect.

I'd completely strip all the painted items and either repaint or powder coat.
Powder coating is stronger but has some teething issues. It's harder to work with and not "correct" if you're trying to stay "stock." The powder coater has to know what they are doing as powder coating incorrect areas can make it impossible to re-assemble. Once again threads are available.

I'd rebuild the rack (take apart, clean all the ancient grease out, inspect, re-assemble.)

If I took the front suspension completely off the car, I'd do the whole shebang.
You will end up with a picture exactly like the second post in this thread...

The holes in the body that the bar passes through were not cut into a car that didn't come with a sway bar. Extensive metal work is required to patch those holes and it would be difficult to restore the factory "look' as the patch panels would be evident.

The A-arms have also had tabs welded to them that would have to be removed. These are actually shown in the diagram, the little u-shaped bracket on the top of the a-arm.

Personally, I'd leave it in. The front bar usually helps the stock cars handle better.
It is a normal period correct mod and will be very difficult to completely erase from the car.

The rear, not so much. Some folks don't like the rear bar at all.


Rick

[barefoot]

By all means replace at least the rear bushing in the front a-arms. That will have sagged to the point that the torsion bar is rubbing on the ID of the arm, loosing paint protection thus leading to corrosion and torsion bar fracture.

Thanks for sharing. Had not read about this. Are you referring to #22 in the parts catalog?

No, it's the big bushing hidden inside the A-arm.
The one you show is just to sort of seal the cavity behind the bushing.

[burton73]

This is what a bunch of front end parts look like for a 6

Bob B

[Al Meredith]

Dennis, Does your rack and pinion come from a 914 or since it was assembled in the Porsche factory does it have a "ZF" box like a 911. My reason for asking is because our real 6 has been apart for 35 years and I have 3 914 R&Ps and three "ZF" with a large ZF on the casting. Al

[burton73]

Dennis, Does your rack and pinion come from a 914 or since it was assembled in the Porsche factory does it have a "ZF" box like a 911. My reason for asking is because our real 6 has been apart for 35 years and I have 3 914 R&Ps and three "ZF" with a large ZF on the casting. Al

This is the ZF rack and pinion that came with this 85 Carrera suspension I bought 14 years ago. Note there is a difference in the length of the part that goes up to the steering wheel in case people are swapping out a whole front end from a SC or Carrera, they need to change to one or the other I just don't remember what which was longer? I went through the same thing when I put a SC full front suspension in my 1974 2.0 back in 1979. It was a super fresh one and it worked great Under sway and all.

Bob B