Fix passenger side longitudinal Options

[friethmiller]

I'd say it doesn't look nearly as bad past that point. There was a puddle of water soaking in the rug under the passenger's seat about 3 weeks after I got it (no rain since purchase), my guess was that a bad door seal allowed water to get in and it rusted away in PO's parking lot for a couple years.

You're talking but the pics say otherwise. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) Your rust damage goes all the way up to the engine mount. You could potentially repair this without removing the mount but I'd be coming in from the other direction. This would involve cutting the lower half of the quarter panel out to gain access. I actually prefer to remove the entire panel - to avoid the added bodywork. I've never seen it but to try to come in from the engine bay side would be tough. You'd probably want to remove the engine. I just did this repair a few months ago on a car far worse than yours (Fred's Backyard LE Restoration - Post #62).

[willieg]

Given the extent of the rust, and I assume your desire to do as much as possible, I suggest you take a welding class, find a good welding machine and do a lot of the work yourself. 914World is the best car forum I have ever known. They will help, encourage and support your every effort. Go for it.

[bkrantz]

I'd say it doesn't look nearly as bad past that point. There was a puddle of water soaking in the rug under the passenger's seat about 3 weeks after I got it (no rain since purchase), my guess was that a bad door seal allowed water to get in and it rusted away in PO's parking lot for a couple years.

You're talking but the pics say otherwise. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) Your rust damage goes all the way up to the engine mount. You could potentially repair this without removing the mount but I'd be coming in from the other direction. This would involve cutting the lower half of the quarter panel out to gain access. I actually prefer to remove the entire panel - to avoid the added bodywork. I've never seen it but to try to come in from the engine bay side would be tough. You'd probably want to remove the engine. I just did this repair a few months ago on a car far worse than yours (Fred's Backyard LE Restoration - Post #62).

Yup, this is looking like a big job, certainly removing engine mount bracket, multiple layers, at least part of outer fender, and if things are worse, perhaps the suspension mount (and then you have to start thinking about a chassis jig).

[boutch55555]

Given the extent of the rust, and I assume your desire to do as much as possible, I suggest you take a welding class, find a good welding machine and do a lot of the work yourself. 914World is the best car forum I have ever known. They will help, encourage and support your every effort. Go for it.

My brother is a welder/fabricator and agreed to help. I plan to do most of the sheet metal hole filling, but I'll be leaving the tricky stuff to him.

So, reading the answers, guess it will be easier coming at it from the outside, it will require to take out the door threshold, inner rocker, rear quarter and a part of the outer wheelhouse, right ? Once there I'll cleanup and check if I need to remove the engine to remove the mount if it needs more work around the inner wheelhouse, right ? Where do I brace it once the quarter panel is removed ? Can I go top seat belt to door hinge ?

[Montreal914]

You will get various answers here but best is to read through the many good restoration threads I posted the link to in my earlier post, especially Jeff Hail’s one where he also buids a dolly to support the tub to restore it. Others are using a rotisserie.

Really at this point, I would read a ton and really get a sense of how the frame is built (layers). Bbrock (RIP) was also mentioned as a reference thread. Tons of pictures and explanations.

@nathanxnathan also explains well the layer structure of the longitudinal beams and his repair. Tons of extremely valuable pictures for everything.

Read a lot before engaging in the work. You will already have a clear picture in your head as you start discovering the extent of the damage. Your rust will be extensive.

Clean looking cars have rust in between layers, and pretty much did once getting off the boat after the ocean ride 50 years ago. This rust kept on doing its job and was highly stimulated by the Quebec salty roads and humid climate (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif) .

Take you time before making quick moves.


Edit: Here is what I am referring to when I say rust is hiding between layers.

At first glance, this looks like healthy metal:



And here is what is hiding behind it... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif)

[friethmiller]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) with @Montreal914

[Superhawk996]

Denial always runs deep with 914s (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

The guy I purchased my teener from had no idea how extensive the rust was or how much of the car would have to be replaced. A genuine nice guy. He just thought the car was a lot better than it was.

Unless you’ve torn into 914s before, it’s hard to believe how the structural rust hides and how drastically it compromises the structure. They can look nice on the surface but be roached structurally thus the denial.

[Geezer914]

Gluttons for punishment!

[Superhawk996]

Gluttons for punishment!

In all fairness it’s very rewarding to save a car that otherwise have become scrap. If done properly a restored chassis with new Galvaneal sheetmetal will have better structure than a “rust free” survivor and the Galvaneal will last far longer than the original sheetmetal.

Makes zero financial sense but it is a fun hobby!

[Bwingate]

So, I just finished removing the floor, I'm left with (among others) that to fix before installing the new one. Can I just cut the rot and have a welder patch it with something based on steel angle ? How else ?

<< snip picture>>

I'm no expert at bodywork by any means, and I cannot tell your level of experience, but before you go cutting out the sills and longitudinals, make sure the car is very well braced. It will very likely fold up like a taco without bracing.

[930cabman]

Gluttons for punishment!

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

We are

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

[boutch55555]

So, I just finished removing the floor, I'm left with (among others) that to fix before installing the new one. Can I just cut the rot and have a welder patch it with something based on steel angle ? How else ?

<< snip picture>>

I'm no expert at bodywork by any means, and I cannot tell your level of experience, but before you go cutting out the sills and longitudinals, make sure the car is very well braced. It will very likely fold up like a taco without bracing.

Yeah, I added bracing in place of the doors before removing the floor, as suggested in the Restoration Design floor replacement video. But now I'll have to do something else on the passenger side if I remove the rear quarter panel.

[Montreal914]

FWIW (for what it’s worth), I think finding a way to brace while keeping the doors in allows you to keep track door gaps as you go along. Obviously when the rear quarter is removed it becomes more difficult…

[boutch55555]

FWIW (for what it’s worth), I think finding a way to brace while keeping the doors in allows you to keep track door gaps as you go along. Obviously when the rear quarter is removed it becomes more difficult…

Yeah, we debated for a bit before removing the doors, but it allowed me to jack the passenger side just right to correct the gap and make sure the roof measurement was spot on before removing the doors, tacking in place and removing for final welds.

I have no room for a rotisserie in the garage, I might end up building something around a 2" steel square tube, with side channels going to multiple anchor points along the passenger side to keep it straight. Also wondering if perhaps I should first install the front half of the pan to give it back some rigidity.

[friethmiller]

FWIW (for what it’s worth), I think finding a way to brace while keeping the doors in allows you to keep track door gaps as you go along. Obviously when the rear quarter is removed it becomes more difficult…

Yeah, we debated for a bit before removing the doors, but it allowed me to jack the passenger side just right to correct the gap and make sure the roof measurement was spot on before removing the doors, tacking in place and removing for final welds.

I have no room for a rotisserie in the garage, I might end up building something around a 2" steel square tube, with side channels going to multiple anchor points along the passenger side to keep it straight. Also wondering if perhaps I should first install the front half of the pan to give it back some rigidity.

Welding in the pans will help a lot, IMO. Your door bars are very good. I would think you could reinstall them after the quarter is removed or leave them in place if you decide to cut the lower section. I always use bracing under the longitudinal and then on the back side before I cut into the hell hole area. You can use a jack or wood bracing. Another thing to keep in mind... cut only what needs to be replaced. Don't do what some do (cough.. cough.. on YouTube) and just start going cut-crazy (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif) If you buy a patch panel, cut out only what you need and keep your repair localized. My 2 cents.

[930cabman]

FWIW (for what it’s worth), I think finding a way to brace while keeping the doors in allows you to keep track door gaps as you go along. Obviously when the rear quarter is removed it becomes more difficult…

Yeah, we debated for a bit before removing the doors, but it allowed me to jack the passenger side just right to correct the gap and make sure the roof measurement was spot on before removing the doors, tacking in place and removing for final welds.

I have no room for a rotisserie in the garage, I might end up building something around a 2" steel square tube, with side channels going to multiple anchor points along the passenger side to keep it straight. Also wondering if perhaps I should first install the front half of the pan to give it back some rigidity.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/cheer.gif) Lookin like you are on the right track

Another one being saved (IMG:style_emoticons/default/cheer.gif)

[bkrantz]

Gluttons for punishment!

Hey, we're on a mission! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/screwy.gif)

[Superhawk996]

Gluttons for punishment!

Hey, we're on a mission! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/screwy.gif)

[friethmiller]

Here's one for you. Haven't watched it all the way through but it gives you a good view of what to expect. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Synh2C1E00


Here's what NOT to do, IMO. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vv9hBm8iCBI

[Superhawk996]

Here's what NOT to do, IMO. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vv9hBm8iCBI

In more ways than one. Dude using angle grinder with cutoff wheel and no blade guard apparently has never seen the injuries that causes including fatalities.