Amp wiring, My amp is protecting itself for some reason Options

[CCE]

Just installed a Bluetooth amp to my car, to clean the dashboard with a blank faceplate, I ran a cable direct to my battery but I am getting the amp to shut down protecting maybe because of an overload since it doesn’t get energy from the regulated board I think. Can anyone confirm if my assumption is correct or if my regulator is not regulating correctly.

Thanks.
I updated the photo. And my wires

[Spoke]

Just installed a Bluetooth amp

What is the part number of the Bluetooth amp?

[technicalninja]

What's up with the single ground to chassis only?

At a minimum I want a chassis ground like you have AND an even larger cable direct to engine/transmission, the closer to the starter the better...

Optimal is big ground (large battery cable) to starter mount, medium ground (10 gauge or better) to engine close to alternator. Then 2 big (small battery cable) to chassis. One at normal spot and one behind/beneath the dash.

For the front one I'd put in a grounding bar similar to what you find in your home electrical panel. That would allow me to add ground circuits at will from the dashboard appliances.

I sorry I don't have a direct answer to your question.

IMHO you need grounds BAD!

[Superhawk996]

Without details of what amp you’re using and how you’ve wired speakers - it’s impossible to tell what is going on. You may have speakers shorted, or too low of impedance speakers, causing the amp to go into protection.

However, with the large amp power supply wire coming off the battery positive as shown, the voltage regulator should have nothing to do with the problem as long as the battery is 12v (vehicle off) and about 13.8v - 14v (ish) with vehicle running (charging). Use a Multi-meter to verify. If that is OK, your problem is how you’ve wired the amp.

The single chassis ground is not a problem for your amplifier.

[Superhawk996]

What's up with the single ground to chassis only?

Standard automotive practice on both vintage and modern vehicles.

Picture below is battery negative cable for BMW E70 X5. Although it has a device incorporated (shunt resistor) to allow all current draw to be measured - all current is still sourced from a single ground connection to chassis and battery negative.

Very modern but still a single ground

[windforfun]

Previously used amp?

New amp? If so, it might be bad out of the box.

None of this stuff gets factory tested before shipment. None of it.

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[technicalninja]

What's up @Superhawk996 ?

Do you just argue for the sake of argument?

He's right! The OEMs do single grounds all of the time. It's a requirement if you want to add in a shunt (in the neg cable) for current draw. Won't work without it.

It's done for cost reasons (or the shunt) and modern build practice is SHITLOADS better regarding lack of electrical resistance through the body. They do many processes to the sheet metal that they didn't 50 years ago.

The place that is the Achilles heel for Bimmers is the ground cable from the engine to the body.
I replace those all of the time. Super nice looking big, braided cable!
If it was grounded to the battery that wouldn't happen!
Battery being 10 feet away from the engine doesn't make adding the extra ground easy.

The very worst BMW ground cables (at the battery) have an explosive squib in them. This isolates the battery in the case of an accident. It is the LAST to detonate in an airbag deployment.
The squib get corrosion in it over time and takes the car down hard.
The cable takes 1 minute to change but cost $450!
A 18" FLAPS cable WILL solve the no-start but you will have an SRS light from that point on.
I'm a BMW guy. I have a 98 E36 M3. I LOVE old BMWs. Someday I'll have an E24 M6 and an E39 M5 (early canbus!).
I advise my customers to NOT keep a canbus equipped BMW past 150K or ten years.
You end up buying battery cables and other stuff that cost 1000% more than they should!
The ones who want to keep their stuff longer I advise to get serious about DIY OR expect maintenance cost to skyrocket after 10Y/150K.

Superhawk didn't mention this as he probably hasn't had to deal with PISSED OFF customers over a simple ground strap...

The 50 years of corrosion on non-treated sheet metal doesn't help ANY car.
Even old Bimmers have problems.

Hyundia and Kia use single body grounds.
When those cars show up for electrical issues (alternator/starter) I first test by connecting jumper cable from the negative bat terminal to the tranny case.
Problem usually disappears!
I FIX 90% of them by adding a single ground to the trans.
They don't need the alternator/starter the customers call about.
They need to be PROPERLY grounded!
It's $50 versus 400 and the new parts often don't fix it anyways.
These cars are ten years old, and the single ground has functioned fine for all of them right up to the point it doesn't.
Fixing shit like that for chump change VASTLY increases customer confidence in their technician!
If I end up putting a starter/alternator on the car, the additional ground gets installed as well.
EVERY SINGLE TIME!!!!
I hunt "no comebacks" viciously.
Comebacks DESTROY customer confidence and don't make money!

This comes from a guy that has been repairing vehicles for 40+ years...
I have a 95% "Kill ratio". After I do work for you, you NEVER take any of your vehicles to anyone else. You, normally, feed me your relatives and friends.
I tell customers to "send me more victims". They always laugh.
I have customers that have been with me for 30+ years.
I do ZERO advertisement...

SH is right! The radio problem is (most likely) not related to the single ground.

Electron flow is from negative to positive and if the negative side has ANY resistance, it will cause strange shit to happen.

Lots if threads on here mention REPLACING the original ground cable to the engine as preventative maintenance/fix strange starting/charging issues.

Your car had that set up originally.
It doesn't now.

Take my advice or not...
You could do it easily with the battery you have.
Get a side post negative cable with a 10-gauge second wire at your FLAPS.
Cable goes to engine/trans. Second lead could support the forward ground bar or a second one to engine.
$25 and ten minutes...

To say "Oh, your 50-year-old ANYTHING can get away with a single chassis ground" is EXTREMELY short sighted in my book. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ninja.gif)

SH, if you were working for me, telling the customer a 50-year-old chassis ground was the way to go would be "Strike One"...

[Front yard mechanic]

Get a 15 year old to figure it out they know how to turn up the music (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

[Superhawk996]

What's up @Superhawk996 ?

Do you just argue for the sake of argument?

Sometimes (IMG:style_emoticons/default/stirthepot.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/happy11.gif)

Other times it’s simply to keep a thread on track and to help keep the OP from getting distracted by something that won’t help his specific problem.

[CCE]

Get a 15 year old to figure it out they know how to turn up the music (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

Hahahaa, agree!

Sorry for my delay in the reply.

The amp is a Bluetooth 400w 4way amp from blaupunkt.


Model AMP1804BT. New from Amazon and I installed it with an amp install kit, the ground in the first picture is the factory setup, just with an optima battery.



The speakers are a pair of focal 5.2” in the original grills and a set of 5.1 also focales 2 way. the door holes where already in when I got the car… with a set of roten clarions… very ugly.

[technicalninja]

But it MIGHT help the entire electrical system...

So, if I see something that I believe is a critical problem I should just let "sleeping dogs lie" if it isn't directly aimed at that issue?
Especially if the solution will be the least expensive thing the OP can do to the car..

This is the Superhawk996 way?

Most of your answers to my questions are NOT on point Sir!
Most of the answers from anyone are not on point.
Doesn't matter to me. I LIKE your posts (at least most of them).
Seldom do you "screw the pooch". You did here.

Having multiple insights into anything is SO much better than having just one or two...

I've "fixed" more "un-killable by anyone else" electrical gremlins with two techniques.

#1 Make sure you don't have ground issues.
#2 Service history, most of the time (90%) the truly weird electrical issues are a direct result of some monkey "screwing the pooch".

I once diagnosed and fixed a mid 80s 7 series that was blowing fuses. Multiple other techs had tried. The owner of the shop stated it was 'unfixable". The entire dash had been removed, the wiring harness "de-taped" and re-connected everything. It had been "dead" at Eurospec (a shop I worked at in the 90s) for two years.
Every tech there has tried.
Within 45 minutes I had isolated it to a pinched harness at the front bumper mount.
The problem MAGICALLY started right after the car was painted...
I fixed that puppy in under an hour total and DECLINED the "put the dashboard back into the car" job!
Luckily the moron who removed the dash still worked there.

Grounds and monkeys are the rule here.

I'm the Technicalninja
I did NOT choose that name. I earned it!
It was bestowed on me WITHOUT my consent by my shop critters.

Sorry SH, the ninja way is to make other aware when I see a possible Gremlin or the Reaper.
It's just my style...
Technician FIRST! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ninja.gif)

[CCE]

Here a pick of the dash. And speakers

[Superhawk996]

@CCE

I’m trying to find Blaupunkt documentation for this amp but looks to be very poorly supported.

What are the symptoms with the amp? When you say it’s shutting down from overload what do you mean by that ?

The main thing that I can see from back panel online is that the remote (rem) terminal needs to have switched 12v to power the amp on.


How do you have the amp and speakers wired? Photos would help.

Have you checked your speaker wiring to make sure you don’t have short circuits there?

[CCE]

@CCE

I’m trying to find Blaupunkt documentation for this amp but looks to be very poorly supported.

What are the symptoms with the amp?

The main thing that I can see from back panel online is that the remote (rem) terminal needs to have switched 12v to power the amp on.


How do you have the amp and speakers wired?

The amp just shuts down as soon as I accelerate the motor under load. 1st gear or second. It blips, and starts again 5 seconds later. Can’t really use it.

The amp has a remote on connection, I installed it to the fuse board on a free tab that opens with the ignition on

I also installed a switch just to disconnect when not in use to interrupt the remote line in.


Speakers run direct to the doors and all connector I installed with ferrings and thermofit.

I liked very much my install until it did not work! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif) all is under. The dash and does not show.

[Superhawk996]

@CCE

I’m trying to find Blaupunkt documentation for this amp but looks to be very poorly supported.

What are the symptoms with the amp?

The main thing that I can see from back panel online is that the remote (rem) terminal needs to have switched 12v to power the amp on.


How do you have the amp and speakers wired?

The amp just shuts down as soon as I accelerate the motor under load. 1st gear or second. It blips, and starts again 5 seconds later. Can’t really use it.

The amp has a remote on connection, I installed it to the fuse board on a free tab that opens with the ignition on

I understand. Have you measured the 12v power supply while the amp is shutting off? This would be just to make sure amp isn’t going past its 15v upper supply voltage limit.


So just to clarify, if you don’t run the motor, the amp will work and keeps working OK until the engine is started?

[CCE]

@CCE

I’m trying to find Blaupunkt documentation for this amp but looks to be very poorly supported.

What are the symptoms with the amp?

The main thing that I can see from back panel online is that the remote (rem) terminal needs to have switched 12v to power the amp on.


How do you have the amp and speakers wired?

The amp just shuts down as soon as I accelerate the motor under load. 1st gear or second. It blips, and starts again 5 seconds later. Can’t really use it.

The amp has a remote on connection, I installed it to the fuse board on a free tab that opens with the ignition on

I understand. Have you measured the 12v power supply while the amp is shutting off? This would be just to make sure amp isn’t going past its 15v upper supply voltage limit.

Not yet, I will do as soon as I get home, I think will be up the chart.

I was thinking on installing the “+” cable direct from the fuse bar, but worry it can be too much load on a 50 year old board…

[CCE]

@CCE

I’m trying to find Blaupunkt documentation for this amp but looks to be very poorly supported.

What are the symptoms with the amp?

The main thing that I can see from back panel online is that the remote (rem) terminal needs to have switched 12v to power the amp on.


How do you have the amp and speakers wired?

The amp just shuts down as soon as I accelerate the motor under load. 1st gear or second. It blips, and starts again 5 seconds later. Can’t really use it.

The amp has a remote on connection, I installed it to the fuse board on a free tab that opens with the ignition on

I understand. Have you measured the 12v power supply while the amp is shutting off? This would be just to make sure amp isn’t going past its 15v upper supply voltage limit.


So just to clarify, if you don’t run the motor, the amp will work and keeps working OK until the engine is started?

Correct, I only noticed It shuts down after I finished and was on a test drive.

here you can see the ground loop on top, directly to the old autoradio ground.

[Superhawk996]

@CCE

So here are a couple things you can do:

1) clean off that under dash ground until you have shinny bare metal
1a) you can use a multimeter to measure resistance between that under dash ground and battery post negative to appease Ninja. Should be very close to zero ohms. Your test leads will have some resistance. Measure by shorting leads. Subtract that from whatever the meter reads between under dash and battery negative

2) use meter to monitor the 12v input to the amp while driving. Should not really be much above 14.5v max. Since you are tapped directly off battery positive this is your battery voltage when runnning and charging. If it’s exceeding 15v here, your voltage regulator is acting up.

3) monitor the remote connection when driving to make sure that it has a steady 12v being supplied to it. A loose spade connector on the fuse panel proving intermittent 12v would cause the shutdown / restart behavior you’re seeing.

From what I can find for amp documentation the input voltage upper limit is 15v. Make sure you aren’t exceeding that.

Beyond that it would be RF interference from old school ignition or alternator that the amp is sensitive to and causing the shutdowns.

[Chris914n6]

With the current info sounds like the speaker wires are either shorting to each other or to the chassis.

[windforfun]

Here's some more wood to throw on the fire.

If your voltage regulator checks out & your grounds are kosher, as previously discussed, I would again suggest that the amplifier is bad. If there is alternator noise while driving, then I would also suggest that the amp's internal PI filter is bad & leaking to ground (assuming it has one) due to a bad capacitor. External PI filters were used in the old days to eliminate alternator noise. They consist of an inductor in series with the hot input along with two capacitors on either side of the inductor which run from the hot input to ground. An intermittent leaking capacitor will short to ground & perhaps blow a fuse depending upon how bad the short is. I've run into this problem before with OLD audio gear.

Again, just some more potential BS to add to this discussion.

Your wiring looks very clean. Are your loudspeakers hooked up independently or in parallel? Series would be a no no from a sound quality perspective, but this will decrease the load. The lower the total resistance, as in the case of a parallel connection, the larger the load. I suppose this is a moot point since the system works fine when the car isn't running.

Ergo you have a defective amp. They don't test these things prior to shipping. I would return it for a new one. Can you contact Blaupunkt for additional support?
Does the thing come with a schematic?

Finally, what happens when you disconnect the speakers? Can you see if the amp shuts down while hitting the gas pedal?

Finally again, this is a Class D amplifier. They are prone to power supply issues.

From the internet:

"Power-Related Problems:

Power issues are another common concern. These can range from the amplifier failing to turn on to problems with maintaining consistent power output during use.
Causes can include faulty power supplies, inadequate power sources, or internal component failures, such as issues with the power management circuitry."

https://brzhifi.com/blogs/news/solving-comm...troubleshooting

Hmmm... Is the amp getting hot & going into thermal overload & subsequent shut down?

Call me at 408-802-0155 if you wish to discuss this in greater detail. Leave a message if I don't answer.

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