side-shifter v. tailshifter, crow doesn't taste so good... Options

[lapuwali]

I take back everything I ever said about how a well-set-up tailshifter is "just as good" as a side-shifter. The side-shifter in my car now after my driveline swap is WAY better than the perfectly set up tailshifter I pulled out, and the firewall bushing isn't even installed (it popped out, need to try again). If it got better still after replacing that bushing, it will be Honda quality. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/wub.gif)

Anyone still using a tailshifter should ignore all of my previous advice and get a side-shifter ASAP. I'm amazed at the difference between this gearbox and the side-shifter in my old '73.

[bd1308]

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/laugh.gif)

[TravisNeff]

Here, here! I just did the swap yesterday. Easy to feel the gates over the tailshifter. However the tailshifter did have a buttery smooth flow to it, but gear guessing was needed. I boiled the bushing in water in the microwave for about 15 minutes, and a couple smacks with a dead blow hammer and it went right in.

[Bleyseng]

enjoying that Crowpie...mr. know-it-all? (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif)

[Joseph Mills]

QUOTE (lapuwali @ Aug 24 2005, 07:08 PM)

I take back everything I ever said about how a well-set-up tailshifter is "just as good" as a side-shifter. and the firewall bushing isn't even installed (it popped out, need to try again).

You're a good man and you are correct. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif)


Make a diagonal cut in your firewall bushing and "screw" it in place. Makes it real easy.

..

[mikey]

It's good to hear this. My basket case sixer was converted to a side shifer during restoration with all new bushings. I almost wish I could have driven the car before conversion so I could compare the two shifters.

[Mueller]

QUOTE (mikey @ Aug 24 2005, 08:49 PM)

It's good to hear this. My basket case sixer was converted to a side shifer during restoration with all new bushings. I almost wish I could have driven the car before conversion so I could compare the two shifters.

Mikey,

the /6 transmission is different (better??) enough from the /4 tailshifter to be better, or at least a few I have driven, I wouldn't worry too much...

[mikey]

QUOTE

the /6 transmission is different (better??) enough from the /4 tailshifter to be better, or at least a few I have driven, I wouldn't worry too much...

I didn't know the 6 tranny itself was different from the 4 - other than the ratios, of course.

I'm putting together the new side-shift linkage in now and have compared it to the original tail-shift linkage. The side-shift linkage is simpler with a much more direct connection on the bottom of the shift lever. With all new bushings mine should shift pretty well. I do like the original comment about a side-shifter with new bushings being "Honda quality"!

QUOTE

Make a diagonal cut in your firewall bushing and "screw" it in place. Makes it real easy

I tried putting the bushing in boiling water, hitting it with a hammer, etc. It wasn't going in at all. What finally worked was getting one edge started in the hole, then taking a round rubber mallet, placing the head against the bushing and applying steady strong pressure instead of whacking it. Finally it popped in. It wasn't easy but I didn't have to slice and "screw".

[jonwatts]

QUOTE (lapuwali @ Aug 24 2005, 06:08 PM)

I'm amazed at the difference between this gearbox and the side-shifter in my old '73.

So do you think the difference is in the gearbox or your '73 had crap bushings?

Is the conversion car driving yet or are you just sitting in it and playing with the shifter making vroom vroom noises? (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/driving.gif)

[dmenche914]

Disagree, with the correct bushings, and a good condition tranny, my tail shifters are just great. Also have driven many side shifters, with new bushings too, and did not really notice the difference, certainly not worth my effort to convert a car to one. The tail shifter when set up correctly is wounderful. A short shift lever, will reduce the throw, and I personally like that. You may not think so, but my advice for a tail shifter car with problems is to check / replace the bushings if you still have trouble, if that ain't it, check the tranny mounts, and engine mounts for sloppienesss, finally if still bad, look for wear in the shift mechanism, or tranny. besides that, if everyone tried to convert to a side shifter, there wouldn't be enough parts in the world to do it, unless we parted out all the side shifters for their trannies and related parts to put in the tail shifter cars.

All hail the tail shifter!!!

[jonwatts]

Shouldn't you be keeping this your little secret so you can have a never-ending supply of $50 tail shifter trannies?

[Joe Ricard]

Really you ain't driven my 70 with a side shift. 1st/ 2nd shifts like a Porsche should. Never compare to a Honda (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/barf.gif)

[Tobra]

This is one of the issues that steered me to a '74 over a '70. That and the 2 liter motor, better window regulators, actually there were a lot of things

[ArtechnikA]

QUOTE (mikey @ Aug 25 2005, 02:14 AM)

I didn't know the 6 tranny itself was different from the 4 - other than the ratios, of course.

Mike mis-spoke just a little. there are teeny detail differences with the transmissions. what i believe he meant to say is that the *linkage* is completely different.

i've never found any fault with my /6's shifting except when the bushings were totally shot. i did once have an issue upshifting from 2nd that wound up in 5th instead of 3rd but that was in a HARD right hand turn at a tight airport DE event. i think stiffer transmission mounts (such as WEVO's "semi-solid") would have fixed that.

probably i should have no opinion since i've never driven a sideshift, but when all the shifts are crisp, positive, and direct, i don't ask for much more. i base most of my comparison on my current daily driver -- 911 -- in which there is *no* linkage. the shift rod goes directly into the tailcone with an aircraft Apex joint shaft coupler. there's no slop.

the Rennshifter did improve the feel, but i think that's more a commentary on the state of the 35 year old original shifter...

[Joe Ricard]

That's the cool thing about these cars. Most model year parts fit most model year cars. Cept them ugly 75 + bumpers. But even that can be worked around.

I got a 70 built Jan 1970. side shift from 73, 2.0L from 74, Late driver door with crash bar and early regulator. Early pass door. Late passenger seat. Fuchs, Mahles and Early Pedrini's, Diamond wheels cira 2005. Early and late targa tops.

What ever works (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/beer.gif)

[tat2dphreak]

I never thought even a side-shifter would be "honda like" but I drove Betty's car, and you could shift every gear with a thumb and fore finger... (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/pray.gif)

the side-shifter in my old car didn't have 1 bushing still in place and so it shifted like SHIT... Clay's(Betty's, really) car made me excited about getting mine on the road(which is ALMOST was last night, but that's a different story..) to see how new bushings feel..

[lapuwali]

QUOTE (mikey @ Aug 24 2005, 10:14 PM)

I tried putting the bushing in boiling water, hitting it with a hammer, etc. It wasn't going in at all. What finally worked was getting one edge started in the hole, then taking a round rubber mallet, placing the head against the bushing and applying steady strong pressure instead of whacking it. Finally it popped in. It wasn't easy but I didn't have to slice and "screw".

I think the trick is to actually boil the bushing itself. I, too, put mine in boiling water, but AFTER I'd boiled the water. No luck. SirAndy says to put it in the water and boil the water in a microwave.

I also felt the tailshifter was great, as I said. However, with one pretty critical bushing out of place, I can feel all of the gates very precisely. I've driven the car a short distance (charging system isn't working yet), and got it up to 4th, and didn't have the slightest problem. It's notchy, where the tailshifter is smoother, but I could never really "feel" the gates on the tailshifter.

I think my '73's side-shifter had a sloppy bronze bushing at the base of the shift lever. That was the only one I didn't look at when I had that car (which I didn't drive for long, it spent most of it's time on jackstands getting body repairs done).

[rhodyguy]

a couple of things with the shift lever. the bushings that cradle the spring at the ball of the lever can make a big dif when renewed. also note the little sleeve sticking out of the hole at the bottom. gotta have that one too.

k

[mikey]

QUOTE

I think the trick is to actually boil the bushing itself. I, too, put mine in boiling water, but AFTER I'd boiled the water. No luck. SirAndy says to put it in the water and boil the water in a microwave.

That's the method I used. I boiled it for about 5 minutes. It didn't seem to soften the bushing much. I ended up burning my fingers, spilling boiling water on myself, etc. The thing kept falling back out once I got it into the hole. There's a little recessed area where it fits on the -6 (maybe the same on the -4) that prevents you from getting a good surface to push against. Steady pressure with a flat object worked for me.

Now I'm about to put the shaft into the bushing. It feels really tight but I'm pretty sure it will slide in with enough force. What kind of lube do you use betwen the bushing and the shaft? White lithium grease ok?

QUOTE

i did once have an issue upshifting from 2nd that wound up in 5th instead of 3rd

I've only driven 2 914s so far but in both I had this same trouble. The sloppy shifting was the only thing I didn't like much about the 914 (356s can be worse!). I suppose you could get used to the slop after a while. Hopefully once I get mine together I won't have this problem.

[goose2]

QUOTE

The sloppy shifting was the only thing I didn't like much about the 914 (356s can be worse!). I suppose you could get used to the slop after a while. Hopefully once I get mine together I won't have this problem.

With new bushings and a Weltmeister shifter, my sideshifter shifts so good I now look for excuses to change gears....very precise and about 5 inches throw. Been having wet dreams about how nice the Rennshift must be.