993 Pedal cluster with Hydralic Clutch, anyone use it yet? Options

[Brando]

I like the way the 993 pedal cluster looks, and looks like it fits comfortably... How would you make something like that work with the stock gearbox to pull the release lever on the clutch though? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/idea.gif)

[neo914-6]

I like the way the 993 pedal cluster looks, and looks like it fits comfortably... How would you make something like that work with the stock gearbox to pull the release lever on the clutch though? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/idea.gif)

I think Ron S's pics are for 915, but with 964 not 993 hydro clutch...

[Brando]

I've been contemplating putting a generic hydraulic master cylinder behind the clutch pedal, giving it room to travel, then running a long line under the car, then to the back where i'd have a push slave cylinder (or a pull-type if I could find one...). Master and slave cylinders can be had inexpensively. It's just getting the part at the transmission to work correctly for a stock 914-901 gearbox that has me befuddled.

[neo914-6]

Hmmmmm..... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/idea.gif)

Felix, how about a work day on Saturday, Dec 2? I'd like to take another look at the assembly. I have some new thoughts. I'd hate to drive down 1.5 hours to look at the pedals for 20 minutes. So maybe we can get some people to help do some work on the car as well.

Mark,

Sounds like a plan, let me check if there are any family plans... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

I think the only way to make the 993 asm work is to cut off the pedal shaft serrated end off and machine and weld it to the 914 pedal shaft. I showed Mike the problems but we didn't really spend much time on it. I can give him the 993&914 parts next week and maybe you two can get together to come up with a better solution. The serrated parts are good for pedal angle adjustment. I could also buy a 964 cyl arm but may need to pay a premium at the dealer. If they are open tomorrow I may go ahead and price one.

[So.Cal.914]

I've been contemplating putting a generic hydraulic master cylinder behind the clutch pedal, giving it room to travel, then running a long line under the car, then to the back where i'd have a push slave cylinder (or a pull-type if I could find one...). Master and slave cylinders can be had inexpensively. It's just getting the part at the transmission to work correctly for a stock 914-901 gearbox that has me befuddled.

Here's one way.

[McMark]

Felix, I'm thinking it might be possible to use without ANY 914 pedal parts. I have an idea... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/cool.gif)

[neo914-6]

Felix, I'm thinking it might be possible to use without ANY 914 pedal parts. I have an idea... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/cool.gif)

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/idea.gif) sounds interesting, this 964/914 morph maintains the stock 914 brake m/c. 993 has a very different brake set up.

[neo914-6]

I've been contemplating putting a generic hydraulic master cylinder behind the clutch pedal, giving it room to travel, then running a long line under the car, then to the back where i'd have a push slave cylinder (or a pull-type if I could find one...). Master and slave cylinders can be had inexpensively. It's just getting the part at the transmission to work correctly for a stock 914-901 gearbox that has me befuddled.

Royce,

H&H's kit is exactly that and is proven. It is also priced equivalent to a new 3 pedal Tilton assembly...

[Larry.Hubby]

You can adapt the 944 hydraulic clutch master cylinder to the stock 914 pedal cluster without too much difficulty. You need to fabricate some parts, but it's nothing compared to what you've already done on the Neo 914-6. The master cylinder can be mounted under the steering rack, like the brake master cylinder (picture below). On the inside, the clutch pedal shaft needs to be lengthened because the master cylinder needs to be mounted further toward the passenger side to avoid the pressed channel in the floorpan that surrounds the center tunnel, and the lever arm needs to be lengthened to get the designed amount of stroke for the 944 parts (second picture). I made a new clutch pedal shaft and delrin spacer, but you could just make an extension piece that bolts or welds to the existing shaft, depending upon what you've got in there now. The photo also shows a couple of triangulating braces I added to try to eliminate any flexing in this area of the floorpan, but, after using the setup for ~ a year, I'm not so sure you really need to do this. The next pictures show what I used on the other end to convert the push action of the 944 slave cylinder to the pull required by the stock '78 911SC clutch throwout levers. The most important thing was to mount the slave cylinder so that the bleeder vent is higher than the rest of the cylinder. If you do this correctly, the system will bleed under gravity and have a nice firm pedal with no hassel. The 944 parts are relatively cheap and easily available, and this keeps the parts that might need replacement completely stock.

[Larry.Hubby]

Sorry! I'm new at this, and didn't get the pictures added correctly!

Here's the first one:



and the second:



and the ones showing the engine end:

From below the heat exchanger:



From the bottom:



and from above the heat exchanger:

[PRS914-6]

Nice clean work Larry! What did you do for the reservoir?

[neo914-6]

Larry,

I should have clarified my car has a Boxster 5 speed with an integral clutch slave cyl. I liked the adaptation of Ron S's 964 clutch to 914 brake assembly because it is compact and mostly a bolt in solution (once the tunnel is trimmed). Your set up is very similar to the H&H solution. I won't post pics because they sell these kits. Unless MarkD's new idea is better, I'm leaning toward adapting the Boxster master cyl. since I know it will be matched to the slave already. It appears to be a top mounted pedal but I'll know more when I see it Tuesday...

Thanks for the input and (IMG:style_emoticons/default/welcome.png)

[Larry.Hubby]

Hi Felix,

I used the clutch reservoir from a 996 turbo, p/n 993.423.417.00. It's very small and used only for the clutch - the only Porsche one I could find that wasn't integral with the brake reservoir.

I should have remembered that you started with the Boxter trans (and that they have an integral slave cyl). Since they usually build in some mechanical advantage, you're definitely best off to stay with the designed parts. I had to e-mail the manufacturer in Germany to get the correct values for the reduction ratio (cyl diameters) and the master cylinder stroke on the 944 parts, and they didn't turn out to be nice even values. It looked like Porsche designed everything else first.

Good luck with your clutch project. The rest of the project is fabulous!

Larry

[Larry.Hubby]

...and sorry, Paul. The reply about the reservoir should have been addressed to you. Thanks for your comment.

[neo914-6]

Thanks Larry, you're welcome to see it at the SJ Auto show in Jan. and I plan to drive it to many events once it's running. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/driving.gif)

Who's your contact at the factory? Another member, Jason is also using the 964/914 asm but with a Boxster 6 speed and could use the ratio info. I'll certainly check out the 996 reservoir, where did you buy it?

[Larry.Hubby]

Felix,

I bought the reservoir new from Porsche, and it wasn't cheap. I can't remember how much, but I remember being grossed out by what they wanted for what's just basically a 2" diameter polyethylene bottle with a screw cap and a hole in the bottom. Maybe you could pick one up from one of the dismantlers for half price or so. Here's what it looks like in comparison to a standard Porsche dual brake reservoir:



I'll look up the correspondence I had with FTE Automotive, who is the OEM for FAG, when I get back to my office on Monday. If I recall correctly, they had a web site that gave quite a bit of technical info. If all you need is the cylinder diameters to compute the reduction ratio, I think this site would do the trick. I needed the designed stroke length also, and for that I just sent an e-mail to their customer service and got a reply in a couple of days with what I asked for. I'll post it here Monday.

Larry

[ClayPerrine]

Been there. Done that...

Not personally, but my 914. Boxster S transmission installed by pros. Including hydraulic pedal cluster.

(IMG:http://www.abc-digital-art.com/Porsche/images/11-2005.jpg)

Zillion headaches slowly overcome. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif) Now car is great. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wub.gif)

(IMG:http://www.abc-digital-art.com/Porsche/images/10-2005.jpg)

Do you have a picture of the left side of the transmission mounted in the car??? I would love to see how a starter was put on the transmission.

[neo914-6]

Felix,

I bought the reservoir new from Porsche, and it wasn't cheap. I can't remember how much, but I remember being grossed out by what they wanted for what's just basically a 2" diameter polyethylene bottle with a screw cap and a hole in the bottom. Maybe you could pick one up from one of the dismantlers for half price or so. Here's what it looks like in comparison to a standard Porsche dual brake reservoir:



I'll look up the correspondence I had with FTE Automotive, who is the OEM for FAG, when I get back to my office on Monday. If I recall correctly, they had a web site that gave quite a bit of technical info. If all you need is the cylinder diameters to compute the reduction ratio, I think this site would do the trick. I needed the designed stroke length also, and for that I just sent an e-mail to their customer service and got a reply in a couple of days with what I asked for. I'll post it here Monday.

Larry

Larry,

After some eBay searches it looks similar to an early 911 brake resevoir.

[neo914-6]

Looks like I'll be borrowing Jason's assembly for now, nice that's it's a bolt in. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smilie_pokal.gif)

I just need to add the reservoir and hose to the slave. I've read the Boxster uses a special "blue" hose...

[McMark]

Felix, if your 993 setup is going to sit on the shelf, how about you drop it in a box and send it up my way (maybe via the Mueller Transport Service). I'll work out my ideas without the 1.5 hour commute. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)