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> straight cut cam gears, why? why not?
sean_v8_914
post Aug 25 2005, 08:21 PM
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why would I want them?
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bondo
post Aug 25 2005, 08:25 PM
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Louder? Less axial thrusting? (that sounds naughty)
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bd1308
post Aug 25 2005, 08:44 PM
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i think that M3 with straight cut tranny gears was crazy awesome....

the sound was pretty
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bd1308
post Aug 25 2005, 08:45 PM
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why do you ask, does somebody make them for the t4?
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J P Stein
post Aug 25 2005, 08:54 PM
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Bad: Noisy
Gud: cover up the tractor like exhaust note (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/laugh.gif)
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Brando
post Aug 25 2005, 09:51 PM
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Les axial thrust (was mentioned). I think it takes less power for the motor to turn the cam with straight cut gears? I dunno...
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Britain Smith
post Aug 25 2005, 10:10 PM
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They make them, I got them.

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Britain Smith
post Aug 25 2005, 10:11 PM
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Another.

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bd1308
post Aug 25 2005, 10:15 PM
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cool....

i believe the difference is that instead of having the force being both in a rotational fashion, there is also a bit of horizontal force applied as well....and with straight cut gears, that eliminates the horizontal force, maximizig the rotational force....

^ ---->
|
--> vs.

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sean_v8_914
post Aug 26 2005, 01:46 PM
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are they good in a daily driver or is stock better for commuter cars?
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Tom Perso
post Aug 26 2005, 01:51 PM
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No need in a daily driver. You really only need them with HUGE spring pressures since it puts a load on the camshaft itself, which then in turn puts a negative rotational force (not sure if I'm saying that correctly) on the camshaft. With the bevel cut gears, the cam wants to "walk" out of it's place and put extra side loads on the bearing faces.

With that said, straight cut gears are noisy and people will think you have a S/C on your "tractor motor" (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/smile.gif)

If you don't mind the sound (I do) go 'fer it. But, no real reason to.

Tom
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Jake Raby
post Aug 26 2005, 02:45 PM
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Most are pure junk... Put them in a lathe with a teflon foot on the bottom of a dial indicator and you'll see what junk really is.... I use them in 2% of my engines, only full race engines wehere every 10/th of 1HP is needed.

I have a decent set i sell in the store for 155.00, they are made in Turkey and are decent quality, BUT they make using my favorite oil pump a true PIA...

Stick with helical gears, the TIV doesn't need bullshit to make it work..

I have been fighting with "Performance TIV parts" all week and have logged 70 hours of labor since Monday on the same engine because of bullshit parts- this one has no room for error..... Hell after 70 hours the shortblock isn't even assembled yet!!!!!!!!!

(I spent Tuesday and Wednesday doing nothing but measuring)
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sean_v8_914
post Aug 26 2005, 04:00 PM
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yup. wash, scrub, clean then measure measure measure, test fit, torque, break it down and repeat

after taking apart a few motors, I am amazed at what I have seen that actually ran. I know most guys just slap it together

I like the measuring and pre-fitting. its the parts cleaning I could do wihtout. I wish I had a jet wash and a hot tank

these gears are true(.00025 Starrett baby!) but I think I will stay with teh stock VW gears
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lapuwali
post Aug 26 2005, 04:12 PM
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QUOTE (sean_v8_914 @ Aug 26 2005, 11:46 AM)
are they good in a daily driver or is stock better for commuter cars?

No good in a daily car, or even a weekender. They're WAY loud, and can often completely dominate the engine note. Depending on the exact gears, you either get an irritating ringing sound, or a loud whine that often sounds like you're driving a executive jet or something.

Honda used them in some street motorcycles, but they developed a clever "scissor" arrangment of two gears side-by-side, sprung loaded to take up the lash between teeth. This quiets them down some w/o the side-loading cause by helical gears.
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Rgreen914
post Aug 26 2005, 05:35 PM
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Interesting topic; October Car Craft has an article called "Cam-drive Comparo". In it, they compare a Comp Cams' adjustable timing set, a Milodon fixed-idler geardrive, a Cat dual-idler geardrive and a Jesel beltdrive; each of them installed in a MoPar 440. Peak dyno hp readings varied less than 4 hp (633.0-636.3); average hp readings varied 1hp (510.7-511.7). Peak torque readings varied similarily (594.2-596.3) with average torque readings following suit (551.9-552.1). Not enough difference between them to merit one system over the others, unless cost is a consideration; if you are running a V8 and like to alter the cam timing, then the Jesel belt drive would probably win out. But on a strictly street driven car...this system would not cut it and your wallet would thank you!

Ron

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Jake Raby
post Aug 26 2005, 06:15 PM
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QUOTE
Interesting topic; October Car Craft has an article called "Cam-drive Comparo". In it, they compare a Comp Cams' adjustable timing set, a Milodon fixed-idler geardrive, a Cat dual-idler geardrive and a Jesel beltdrive; each of them installed in a MoPar 440


Let me guess who has the biggest ad in the mag....

Magazines are worthless to base TRUE comparisons without bias..

I have had a magazine say they would not publish my independant test results of products "because it might upset their advertisers"..

Those big ads are 1-5K+ bucks per month- magaines are filled with worthless political pukes that want shit for their own car for free.... If you give it to them they'll lick your balls, if not you can have the best product on the planet and not get a DAMN thing in "INK".... Hell they won't even feature a car that has my engine sometimes, even if its a bad ass ride because I don't kiss their asses.

Ever seen an article on Nickies?? How about our Ceramic lifters??Best fucking products to EVER be developed for these engines (and the TI) but you won't see the articles because Charles is like me and don't kiss the asses of the magazine pricks that are as political as damn capital hill.. (I can't stand the bastards)

Now-- I will say that Excellence is the ONLY mag that I have come into contact with that DOES NOT work this way... If they want your product they pay you full price for it....

I'll bet you 50 bucks that test wasn't "Fair and balanced".
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Rgreen914
post Aug 26 2005, 06:45 PM
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Whoa, Jake...lighten up! I was just quoting what I read! Comp Cams has two half-page ads in this issue; I've run their stuff in different Chevies and I felt I got a good return for my money on each occasion (drag racers seem to love their products). Could not find an ad in this issue for either Milodon or Cat, although Milodon has been around a long time. As for the Jesel(s), they also had no ad in this issue that I could find. I have had no personal experience with any of these other manufacturers' products, so I can't give any endorsements but most of Milodon's and Jesel's stuff is aimed at the hard-core racer and the fact that they're still in business must say something for their products. Besides, it seems to me that the differences between all the cam drive products appears to be negligible, with no clear cut winner.

Ron
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qa1142
post Aug 26 2005, 06:52 PM
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I think Jake needs to get laid! (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/laugh.gif) (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/sheeplove.gif)
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Jake Raby
post Aug 26 2005, 07:01 PM
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Yeah-
90 hours logged since Monday and the weekend looks like two more days of the same joy- all fighting ONE engine. Yeah I'm in one hell of a mood.

Well, its just a sore spot with me, something that magazine readers would never guess until they tried to fill someones shoes like mine...

I was just trying to state that people should realize that the advertisers keep the mags in business, not the sell of the mag its self....... They'll do ANYTHING to sell a mag.

Anyway- getting back on topic...

Even the straight cuts that I sell are kinda questionable.. The best set in the planet cost 450.00 at my cost and even they are crappy and need work...

Unless your engine HAS to make 100HP+ PER LITER stick with the helical gears... Hell my 3 liter don't even have them, and don't need them...
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d914
post Aug 26 2005, 08:35 PM
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hey jake, you really got to break out of that shell and learn to have an opinion (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/laugh.gif)
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