Explain the 300 dollar shock to me, What the... Options

[chmillman]

I could be wrong but the 914-4 rear sway bars were 15mm and 914-6 were 16mm. Not a significant difference in feel but if it’s a bar for a six, it’s pretty valuable compared to one for a four. At least to an owner of a real six. You can also disengage the rear bar and see if you like the ride. Using a rear bar isn’t mandatory on a 914. Some guys control the roll with just springs. Maybe a bit more understeer but it’s a common setup to just use a front. Easy enough to try it and see if it works for you.

As far as I can tel from what I have read and from the parts manual, 15 front / 16 rear was what was offered as the standard (optional) accessories for the '74's. Mine are in any case aftermarkets - my car didn't have either front or rear when I got it, so I had them put on.

You may be right about the fronts only - back in the late '70s when I had my first one in CA (also a '74) it had a front stabilizer, but no rear one.

And, OT - I wanted to add an aftermarket sway bar kit to my '57 T-Bird. The car was standard with a front ~5/8" sway bar and no rear (on a rigid rear axle), the aftermarket kit replaced the front with a 7/8" bar plus added a rear. But I could not for the life of me get the rear one mounted - it interfered with the exhaust. Someone suggested I just replace the front bar, that I wouldn't really miss the rear. They were right - the stiffer front bar really improves the handling and it doesn't really feel like it needs a rear one. OK, it handles like a boat anyway, but that's the nature of the beast.

[wonkipop]

I could be wrong but the 914-4 rear sway bars were 15mm and 914-6 were 16mm. Not a significant difference in feel but if it’s a bar for a six, it’s pretty valuable compared to one for a four. At least to an owner of a real six. You can also disengage the rear bar and see if you like the ride. Using a rear bar isn’t mandatory on a 914. Some guys control the roll with just springs. Maybe a bit more understeer but it’s a common setup to just use a front. Easy enough to try it and see if it works for you.

As far as I can tel from what I have read and from the parts manual, 15 front / 16 rear was what was offered as the standard (optional) accessories for the '74's. Mine are in any case aftermarkets - my car didn't have either front or rear when I got it, so I had them put on.

You may be right about the fronts only - back in the late '70s when I had my first one in CA (also a '74) it had a front stabilizer, but no rear one.

And, OT - I wanted to add an aftermarket sway bar kit to my '57 T-Bird. The car was standard with a front ~5/8" sway bar and no rear (on a rigid rear axle), the aftermarket kit replaced the front with a 7/8" bar plus added a rear. But I could not for the life of me get the rear one mounted - it interfered with the exhaust. Someone suggested I just replace the front bar, that I wouldn't really miss the rear. They were right - the stiffer front bar really improves the handling and it doesn't really feel like it needs a rear one. OK, it handles like a boat anyway, but that's the nature of the beast.

believe you are correct. i have the factory installed sway bars on a 74.
it is a 1.8 didn't get anything else except a bin under the dash.
pretty sure its 15 front 16 rear. could check that i suppose with official literature, but have a feeling that is right.

think earlier on maybe they just did front sway bars.
but again would not know. don't stray too far from the "classic" that a 74 1.8 is. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)
its a good combo thats for sure. its goes around corners.
and i run skinny mini 165s too. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)
admittedly re issue XAS which are not really XAS of old but rather some sticky mess not designed to go the distance, just look the part and wear out while sticking.
the rear sway bars seem pretty good.
but then again......its all i have ever had.

though i have once driven a 914 without sway bars.
and its quite a bit different. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[Superhawk996]

Someone suggested I just replace the front bar, that I wouldn't really miss the rear. They were right - the stiffer front bar really improves the handling and it doesn't really feel like it needs a rear one. OK, it handles like a boat anyway, but that's the nature of the beast.

While adding front bar stiffness will help control body roll, it will make the inherent understeer of the T-bird even worse.

Highly recommended reading if you’re going to be undertaking suspension changes.

[chmillman]

While adding front bar stiffness will help control body roll, it will make the inherent understeer of the T-bird even worse.

Yep... But in any case you can't drive the thing like a sports car anyway, it's for cruisin'... The reduced body roll is a lot more comfortable on curvy roads now, and for this type of driving, I prefer understeer to oversteer...

[wonkipop]

@chmillman

part numbers for front struts.



your struts have correct numbers for a 74

[chmillman]

your struts have correct numbers for a 74

Well, not according to the image above... I have the same parts catalog.

72 and up left side is listed as 914 341 081 05 (082 right side)

Mine are 914 341 091 00 (092 right side)

Interesting, I found a used part for sale at AASE which has my part number and says it's a Boge strut...



What's most important here is what kind/brand of shock insert will fit in them to replace the BBB's (Bone-Breaking-Bilsteins) ?

Edit:
More searching under that part number gives me all sorts of references for the inserts - not the strut itself. So, is it possible that the number on the outside indicates the insert to be used?

Edit #2:
Ahh, and this found on PMB's website:

914-6 Struts are simply 911T struts in all measures. The odd thing is they come with a 914 part number. That said, don't be confused; the 914-4 strut is quite different. One clue is a straight steering arm on the 914-4 version. Another is the smaller spindle. Yet another is the 16mm "coarse" thread (16x1.5) rotors attachment nut vs. a 16mm "fine" thread (16x1) attachment nut for the 914-6 and 911 versions. If the odd chance (they're not that common) you have 914-6 struts, you're good to go. Part number for the -6 struts is 914 341 091 00 and 914 341 092 00. Again, they are otherwise identical to the 911 version. Again, a "guess" would have it that these had to have 914 part numbers to be assembled as a complete unit into a 914-6. That "unit" (which would consist of the strut, inserts, hubs, rotors, backing plates, balljoints, a-arms, etc...) would basically have no other part numbers on it. Having the 914.341.xxx.xx number would signify that that "unit" had the proper 914-6 17mm torsion bars with the 911 spline count.

Wow... they're really -6 struts?

[wonkipop]

@chmillman


interesting. i see what you are saying

its also engraved with bilstein as well.

here is a thought.
looking very closely at parts catalogue i notice something else.
there is no listing for the 914-6 as applicable car in listings to right.
this could be a typo omission - would not be first time.

and all they are really listing is the boge components.
but bilsteins and konis were definitely options, right through production.
for 4s and 6s.

something else to bear in mind is that whilst changing the shocks as normal maintenance involves simply buying the insert whether boge or bilstien (or i am guessing koni) i dont think thats how it would have been done on the production line. i could be wrong but i think they would have been ready to go so to speak as a complete component.
the production line workers i think were unlikely to have been inserting the shock into the strut.

i reckon the strut came complete from boge or alternatively bilstein. or koni? already fully assembled.

i am going to guess that my strut will be engraved with 914 341 081 or 082.
i won't go so far as to say it has 05 on the end ofr it like the parts manual says.
those last two digits are the superceding part number. and 05 could be last itteration which is not necessarily what went on in 73 or 74. could be. but not necessarily.
usually what happens in these catalogues is the final itteration that fits all the cars as a spare part is listed.
but i will bet the parts number faces the wheel like yours and makes it pretty hard for me to see at the moment.

out of that i think that the 081/082 becoming 091/092 is to identify the struct with bilstein insert as a production line item.

and i wonder if there is a further number for the koni equipped strut.

reason i say this is i know a B6 goes straight into a strut that i know was originally equipped with a boge insert. they were the originals i pulled out of the car in 2019.
so i know the insert goes into that strut. either of the inserts.

something like that must be the explanation.
there is certainly a few missing listings of parts there in that section of the catalogue.

i have found similar missing listings for some L jet parts.
but some of those i found scattered in other sections of the catalogue far away from the EFI components groupings.

its possible these alternative shocks are elsewhere in the catalogue in a not so obvious place - because they were options?

EDIT
i am guessing the top number 1 0221 32 090 0/091 0 is a bilstein part number?

[sixnotfour]

More (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

[wonkipop]

had another good look at mine.
definitely a 4. straight steering arm i believe as per eric shea's very detailed description.
(not a bad thread topic that one! - very good read).
didn't /6s have a wider track at the front as well?

cannot see anything engraved or marked into it like yours.
just a white date stamp.

given the rest of the description e shea lists out yours must be running 5 stud conversion? - done proper? with /6 hubs? and real 6 struts with bent steering arm? arm is to do with the track width.

despite detail at lower end of the strut - the B6s definitely go in either version.
4 or 6. page from bilstein classic catalogue.
and i already know b6 inserts go straight into /4 struts that were equipped with boges.
so it works the other way around as well. boges can go straight into whatever was taking the B6. because some /6s were equipped with boges i believe or they were the standard shock in the 6 just like the 4.

34 as first bit of part number in catalogue means insert.
35 would be indicating a whole strut assembly.
which i do think bilstein make still today and offer.
but it sounds like there is a trick to those full strut assemblies between a 4 and a 6! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[wonkipop]

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wow.
excellent document.

according to that chmillman has 6 struts equipped with boges - originally.
00 on the end.
so it must be able to take boge "replicas". ?

[wonkipop]

i'm seeing something else interesting there too.
which is the bilstein set up for the 4s as an option marked M.
with a whole different part number from the one in the PET for the 4s with boges.
and its got a part number first part same as 6, except last two numbers different.
i guess for the different spindle steering arm details compared to a 6.

which kind of indicates what i was guessing about how these components arrived at the factory for the production line.
the boges would have come as a complete suspension unit from boge factory.
and the bilsteins from billstein factory.

there must be 4s with the option ticked that have those struts with a number and markings very close to what chmillman has on his car, but different last two numbers.

[sixnotfour]

EDIT
i am guessing the top number 1 0221 32 090 0/091 0 is a bilstein part number?

BOGE manufacturer number ?

Looks like it in this pic....

[wonkipop]

@chmillman

AASE bros ad you posted is up the creek.
thats a 6 front strut they are advertising as a 4. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)
rest of description is right. takes a boge (originally). its got a bent steering arm. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[wonkipop]

EDIT
i am guessing the top number 1 0221 32 090 0/091 0 is a bilstein part number?

BOGE manufacturer number ?

Looks like it in this pic....

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)
matches chmillmans when you blow up his photo for markings.
can just see boge and the big triangle is the boge trademark.
all a bit faint and barely there on his.

[sixnotfour]

OG BOGE ,,not exactly an insert..The strut housing was a fluid reservoir.

[chmillman]

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@sixnotfour - Wow, great info, thanks for that! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif) Mystery solved - real -6 Boge struts...

Looks like you might have the complete parts catalog in paper. Back when I had my first 914 in California in the late '70's, my neighbor (who raced a 356) procured me a copy of that catalog - all the parts in English, French, German and Italian. It was like 4 inches thick IIRC. I gave it away with the car when I sold it in the '80's. Would really like to have it back now.

given the rest of the description e shea lists out yours must be running 5 stud conversion? - done proper? with /6 hubs? and real 6 struts with bent steering arm? arm is to do with the track width.

Yes, "real 5-stud conversion". One of the reasons I bought the car, because it already had that, plus the lovely real Fuchs black center 7x15 wheels.




Thanks to all who contributed to this thread! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/first.gif)