911 SC -> 5 Lug, confused about brakes, Help Options

[cbenitah]

Ok,
I know I had to do much on my car when i got it, although i would have liked to wait a little before i did everyhign, but now i need to change the breaks, and i like the idea of putting 911 SC brakes on it, and also get an upgrade to 5 Lug, so i can fit porsche tires on it... etc etc,
So WHAT do i need to to?

Found an image of what i beleive is what i need but not sure, tried to find a thread about it, but couldnt. So if any one is sitting on TONS of info, please post that again or direct me to a thread!

Thanks Cris

(IMG:http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/4955/911bilsteinfrontsuspension9ts.jpg)

[SirAndy]

yupp, that'll do for the front ...

just get the complete front end (like in the picture). it'll bolt right up to your car ...
(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/smash.gif) Andy

[lapuwali]

Basically, everything in that picture except for the rear shocks will bolt up to the 914 tub, and you'll have SC brakes and 5-lug hubs on the front. The steering rack will need to be swapped over to the new crossmember, or you can use the 914 steel crossmember.

To get 5-lug on the back, there are a number of options, the simplest of which is to have your existing rear hubs re-drilled for 5-lug, and have studs pressed in. If you want SC brakes on the back, too, that's a lot more complicated, as the 911 e-brakes are small drum brakes that fit inside the rotor "hat". You CAN fit these e-brakes to the 914, though the effort to get there is considerable.

All of this is a great idea if you're doing a major power increase (V8, turbo Soob, etc), but it's overkill on a stock engined car. Are you replacing the brakes because your brakes need rebuilding, or are you replacing them because you want to?

[Jeroen]

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/agree.gif)
except you can't use the rear shocks that are in the pic (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/wink.gif)

[cbenitah]

Well, I am planning on doing a maybe 2.7L 911 engine, but i can't do so for a couple of months.. and since my brakes needs to be replaced NOW, wouldn't it be smarter to do the brake convertion now... Maybe i'm wrong but that's why I need your help to make a good decision about it.. I'm looking for a brake change during september.. so what should i do?!

here is what i belive what you ment?


(IMG:http://img321.imageshack.us/img321/1317/dsc016632tg.jpg)

[lapuwali]

Those rear calipers look like four-pots to me...

If you want to swap rear brakes, you will have to deal with the e-brake issue, or do w/o e-brakes. This HAS been discussed at length on this board. I know Timo has done this, and Eric Shea has either completed it or is on the way there. I believe SirAndy has the four-pot rears, but no e-brakes yet.

The trailing arms can't be easily swapped, btw, but the 911 brakes and hubs will fit on the 914 trailing arms with some effort. When swapping rear hubs, you have to worry about compatibility of CV joint flanges. The 911 CVs are different, and the axles are shorter, and the inner CVs are different, requiring different diff drive flanges.

As you can tell, this stuff spirals out of control pretty easily, so you need to really want to do all of this. I believe Andy did his brake swap because he was (is?) contemplating a big 6 swap.

Another alternative to get SC front brakes only are the billet hubs in the store. These allow you to use 4-lug wheels with SC rotors. You can bolt SC calipers to SC struts, which require no other changes (i.e., you can keep your existing A-arms, crossmember, steering rack, etc).

There's no simple answer to this question, really. Lots of options, each one with advantages and disadvantages.

[Ferg]

Not much to add to what has been said above but that left a-arm looks really bent in that pic.
Ferg

[Jeroen]

QUOTE (Ferg @ Sep 1 2005, 11:16 PM)

Not much to add to what has been said above but that left a-arm looks really bent in that pic. Ferg

good catch Ferg!

the second pic also shows 911 rear springplates and aluminium rear trailing arms
The brakes look to be turbo brakes, so this could be a complete 911 turbo suspension

The turbo front stuff is too wide for a 914 without flares
the rear turbo calipers don't bolt to the 914 without adapters/mods
The 911 rear suspension parts are unusable

[Mueller]

"what should I do"

1st off, what is your budget?

if you need something "right now", possibly new pads and changing the fluid will do...less than $100

if you buy used 911 stuff, you have the basic price of the parts, plus good chance they'll be needing rebuilding or new pads and bearings for the front

rear conversion is going to cost you at a min. $80 for new wheel bearings on top of whatever you pay for the 5 lug conversion

what 5 lug Porsche wheels do you want?
more money....

the stock 914 4-lug brakes are not that bad...most people just don't know how to properly bleed them

[cbenitah]

so basically this is what I got from all of this, 914 brakes are good by themselves. although mine are worse than my old beetles drums right now.. maybe thats why i'm looking for options... is the billethub/ W 911 rotors a good buy? is it easy to put on etc..


and then i have another question. i have a ticking noise inside my car wjile its running, it sounds like the turn signal is on constantly.. anyone know what would cause this? a fuse or relay>?

thanks

[TravisNeff]

Going 5 lug is spendy, all you really have to have is the front struts/hubs, you can use your existing A-arms - but you may need to backdate or update (replace) your balljoints to match those struts. For the rear you need to convert to a 5 lug flange and 914-6 rotors (you can use your existing rear calipers in this case). Then you need to get your hands on a set of wheels too.

[Mueller]

the only thing really lacking from the stock setup for aggresive or track driving is the ability to get rid of the heat....unless on a track or if you drive in the hills alot will this be an issue.

the billet hubs allow the use of 911 vented rotors and you get to keep your stock 4 lug rims...this setup is working great for John Rogers down in San Diego on his 2.4 /6 powered 914 racecar.

the billet hubs bolt on (only available for '73-'76 struts), you'll need early 911 calipers and rotors, they use stock /4 wheel bearings.

ticking noise? check your relays under the fuse panel, do you "feel" on clicking on and off?

[SirAndy]

QUOTE (Ferg @ Sep 1 2005, 03:16 PM)

Not much to add to what has been said above but that left a-arm looks really bent in that pic.

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/agree.gif) that a-arm is toast ... big time ...

which means the rest is probably bend as well ...
(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/unsure.gif) Andy

[cbenitah]

QUOTE (SirAndy @ Sep 1 2005, 03:28 PM)

QUOTE (Ferg @ Sep 1 2005, 03:16 PM) Not much to add to what has been said above but that left a-arm looks really bent in that pic. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/agree.gif) that a-arm is toast ... big time ... which means the rest is probably bend as well ... (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/unsure.gif) Andy

ok, well i wasnt planing on BUYING that, i just found an image to visually show you guys if i understood what needed to do the converstion.. but if the billet bub is a good idea?
for now at least....... (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/blink.gif)

[lapuwali]

If your stock brakes are bad, you need to look into why. If the MC is trashed, bolting on an SC front end isn't going to help. You need to see what MC you have (may be a 19mm unit, which is a common replacement, but not an "upgrade"). If the calipers are trashed, they can be rebuilt for a fraction of what a full 5-lug setup will run you. If the rubber lines are trashed (very likely), they're a cheap maintenance item.

Unless you're going to track your car, stock brakes in good condition are typically adequate. People who go five-lug do some primarily because they want to, not because they need to. Nothing wrong with that, but you have to consider the expense. If you are going to track the car, vented rotors are a big plus, so the SC rotor w/ billet hubs upgrade is a relatively inexpensive way to get them on the front.

A set of nice 5-lug Fuchs cost about 2x what a set of nice 4-lug Fuchs cost ($800 v $400), to give you some comparison.

[Verruckt]

I have new SC rotors in boxes if you decide to go that route...

[SirAndy]

QUOTE (Verruckt @ Sep 1 2005, 05:31 PM)

I have new SC rotors in boxes if you decide to go that route...

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/hijacked.gif)

anyone got a set of "as good as new" vented & cross-drilled mid '80s Carrera front rotors ???
if so, i'm interested ...
(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/idea.gif) Andy

[cbenitah]

QUOTE (lapuwali @ Sep 1 2005, 03:38 PM)

A set of nice 5-lug Fuchs cost about 2x what a set of nice 4-lug Fuchs cost ($800 v $400), to give you some comparison.

What size wheels can fit under the stock fender then? Or do I have to go THAT route too... Like I said, I will be doing a 6 conv. altough not right now, so everything I can do ONCE is better than have to do it twice if you know what i mean?

i have 195/60-15 on it now, and would like to have wider in the rear....

[mightyohm]

Maybe you should just get the car drivable for now and worry about it later after you get to know your 914 a little better?

Dumping tons of money in now is dangerous before you really know all the issues that the car has (there will be more).

[lapuwali]

The wheel size question is closely followed by the tire size question as the most frequently asked question on this board. It all depends on the offset of the wheels you choose and how out of whack your rear fenders are. They're almost never the same on both sides even with "straight" and "unmolested" bodies, and they're not the same from car to car. If you have 195/60s on there now, measure the gap to the fenders yourself and do the calculations. However, as mentioned in the other thread running now on tire sizes, the sizes the tires are marked with can vary widely from one make and model of tire to another.

I agree with jkeyzer that you should get the car into a stable, drivable state and THEN decide where you want to go with it. Many people find the stock 5.5x15 wheels to be adequate, along with tires that fit those wheels. Many people also find the stock brakes to be adequate (when they're in good nick). Quite a few people discover a stock 2.0 to be good enough. You'll make your own decisions on priorities after you've driven a decently set up car for awhile, and they may be very different from what you're thinking of now.

The alternative, of course, is to do what quite a few other board members have done, which is to have a car for several years on jackstands building the car, w/o really having any idea of what the end product will be like as they never drove it or any other 914 before it went up on the stands.