I thing I found carpet to match oem Options

[PanelBilly]

https://www.upholsterysupplyusa.com/product...ver-knit-carpet

Is this the right stuff?

[scallyk9]

I've been looking for years for the "right stuff" to replace the original carpet in my 1974 914 LE and this might be it, although the swatch marked "Black w/Grey (Part# PSL21)" looks closer with more gray threads. Searching for silver knit seems to be a lot closer than using felt or loop styles. Thanks for posting.

[914werke]

Too hard to tell via the Picture. To me it looks more like Perlon?

[Maltese Falcon]

While my '74 was over at my mechanics shop for a fuel tank change-out, he showed me this bit of carpet in the fuel tank compartment. He has seen the blue/ black factory carpeting (used here as a tank buffer) utilized on the factory RS, RSR + IROC cars minimal interiors.
He also had a 3L mfi/Kügelfisher IROC engine on the stand ! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/aktion035.gif)

[Maltese Falcon]

IROC engine which runs in local POC IROC- tribute cars series. 1.750" MSDS Ceramic coated headers too.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/driving.gif)

[930cabman]

Too hard to tell via the Picture. To me it looks more like Perlon?

yuck, looks exactly like perlon. I prefer a loop product

[bdstone914]

https://www.upholsterysupplyusa.com/product...ver-knit-carpet

Is this the right stuff?

Will they send samples?

[Shivers]

That looks very close to the factory carpet that I took out of my 72. It was 10 years old and the carpet was toast. With coco mats covering the holes it looked pretty good. But 55 a yard is a bit much for my budget

[bdstone914]

https://www.upholsterysupplyusa.com/product...ver-knit-carpet

Is this the right stuff?

I contacted them and requested samples. Cant teell if you cant see it.

Bruce

[wonkipop]

@PanelBilly i think that carpet you are looking at is the carpet that went into 911s at that time.

its a kind of fuzzy look carpet. but not perlon.

914s used VW carpet stock.
most of the higher spec cars had loop pile.
but.........when it comes to 74 914s they changed the black carpet from the loop pile stock they had been using (used in VW 412) to a different type of carpet as was fitted to the VW scirocco.

@scallyk9 this is going to matter for a bumble bee.

@JeffBowlsby has a handle on when this change in the carpet occurred.
its either at the start of when the LEs were coming down the production line or during their production run. so some might have been the earlier carpet and some the later.

i have a sense of when the carpet changes from 74 L jet data. but not as narrowed down as mr. b has pinned it. its between end of feb74 and somewhere in april 74 the changeover happens.

the latter carpet is called salt and pepper. i would call it mottled.
i have seen that carpet or something very close to it on mercedes benz carpet suppliers.

you need a sample if you are wanting to be serious about getting a bumble bee right.
depends on what you are trying to do and how far you want to go.

[mapguy]

@Maltese Falcon Our cars must be pretty close in VIN. I have the same exact carpet under my tank. My understanding is they used whatever they had, and the tank carpet can vary from car to car.

[scallyk9]

@PanelBilly i think that carpet you are looking at is the carpet that went into 911s at that time.

its a kind of fuzzy look carpet. but not perlon.

914s used VW carpet stock.
most of the higher spec cars had loop pile.
but.........when it comes to 74 914s they changed the black carpet from the loop pile stock they had been using (used in VW 412) to a different type of carpet as was fitted to the VW scirocco.

@scallyk9 this is going to matter for a bumble bee.

@JeffBowlsby has a handle on when this change in the carpet occurred.
its either at the start of when the LEs were coming down the production line or during their production run. so some might have been the earlier carpet and some the later.

i have a sense of when the carpet changes from 74 L jet data. but not as narrowed down as mr. b has pinned it. its between end of feb74 and somewhere in april 74 the changeover happens.

the latter carpet is called salt and pepper. i would call it mottled.
i have seen that carpet or something very close to it on mercedes benz carpet suppliers.

you need a sample if you are wanting to be serious about getting a bumble bee right.
depends on what you are trying to do and how far you want to go.

Right! Why I've been looking so long and have a few swatches that are not close enough. My restoration of the LE has been as factory correct as I can make it and the car has been on extended displays and has won PCA Concours events...but the pursuit of correct period and model year correct parts never ends.

The closest match I've found was noticed in a friend's reupholstered side car for his early 1970's BMW motorcycle. I contacted the craftsman who did the work, and he said it was from fabric he had from a years ago project. The carpet had been customer supplied but sourced from Germany and known as Hargaarn velour. I've found several kits for 65 to 73 911s using the charcoal version (including 911 kits from Classic Touring Seats) but I've only seen that fabric in photos.

My LE (4742914854) was produced in early March of 1974 with this salt and pepper carpet.

[wonkipop]

@scallyk9

yes, correct carpet material is tricky for the 914s if its loop pile square weave type.

periodically i make searches for the 74 brown carpet as stock, just in case i ever needed some to repair or fix a section of carpet. i have a set of rhd carpets i made of correct brown stock i wisely bought at the time (35 years ago, gee time flies! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif) ). i got the raw stock in a roll from porsche australia back then!

i have stumbled across this stuff and i think it could be close when it comes to black interiors. but never the brown.

for an early 74 up to end of feb 74. this looks like it could be close to right?

color - anthracite.


and for later 74 mottled/salt and pepper.
charcoal - top row.



it would make sense that VW was using same or similar carpet stock to MB - at least for the top spec of the line VWs, which 914s and sciroccos were.

but again you would need samples to see how close these really are.


alas i have never stumbled across anything remotely resembling the 74 brown loop pile.
which is a shame. i understand that some LEs came with brown interiors too. creamsicles i think.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

[Maltese Falcon]

@Maltese Falcon Our cars must be pretty close in VIN. I have the same exact carpet under my tank. My understanding is they used whatever they had, and the tank carpet can vary from car to car.

Imagine all of the 6-figure RS, RSR, IROC Historic 911s rolling around today with our frugal carpeting from the Karmann Karosserie parts bin.
Whatever works and if scrap carpeting keeps the rattles away in a 914...just Do it !
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/marty914.jpg)

[scallyk9]

@wonkipop
Not even close to the original salt and pepper carpet in my LE. PanelBilly's internet find is much closer so I'll be interested in hearing comments from Bruce if he receives the swatches he requested.

I need to make a correction. I just checked the door jamb sticker and the COA and my LE (4742914854) was actually built during the end of February, not early March. It is correctly recorded in Jeff Bowlsby's LE register.

I've not seen original carpet in an LE produced earlier than mine but it might be nice to hear from any other LE owner's that still have original carpet.

[914werke]

Following ..

[wonkipop]

@wonkipop
Not even close to the original salt and pepper carpet in my LE. PanelBilly's internet find is much closer so I'll be interested in hearing comments from Bruce if he receives the swatches he requested.

I need to make a correction. I just checked the door jamb sticker and the COA and my LE (4742914854) was actually built during the end of February, not early March. It is correctly recorded in Jeff Bowlsby's LE register.

I've not seen original carpet in an LE produced earlier than mine but it might be nice to hear from any other LE owner's that still have original carpet.

then you must have had needle loom in your LE?


the samples i put up are for loop pile. - (usually regarded as higher spec/quality than needle loom).
loop pile is what my jan 74 1.8 has.
have the original carpets, along with the set i made for RHD and it is as per these color swatches. ie the top brown one on the loop pile page. the early black is at the bottom.
the anthracite i posted is very close to the original black loop pile in the factory swatch .
salt and pepper or mottled which they changed to isn't on the original published swatch brochures but its pretty much like the brown mottled one on the brochure and the MB stuff is either exactly the right stuff or very close.
my mate has a couple of early 70s mercs still with the original factory carpets.
one has a brown interior, the other is black. brown one looks identical to the salt and pepper brown loop on the 914 swatch (second from top) and the black one the same as the black loop pile the 914 switched to later in 74. i am pretty sure on the source for that later 914 loop pile. but only when it comes to black. always drawn a blank on the early style brown 914/VW loop pile. even the black is tricky to be sure you are getting the right stuff. both are laced with fine white fibres like grey hairs when you are turning 40 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) - very unusual stock to find these days.



material linked to in the original post is noted as sliver knit.
sliver knit does not look like needle loom in real samples and nothing like loop pile.
so - yes it will be interesting to see if that material is a match for the original needle loom.

as remarked before i have a feeling that 911s had sliver knit. its more like a kind of soft fluffy but closely cropped material. 914s never used the 911 materials - they used VW stock carpets. more is the pity in some ways as you can still easily get all the 911 carpet base material. not so the VW stuff from the same era.

you have to find a section of carpet that was covered in the car originally to get the match just right. not sure how the blacks faired with time but the brown carpets in the 74 were extremely vulnerable to fade and discolouring within a very short period and deteriorated rapldly which might explain why VW switched to MB loop pile later in the production run. some carpets probably faded within 2-3 years so they became aware of the problem - it would not have been in just 914s but across the upper end of the VW range. the deterioration problem could also be the reason its so hard to find a match for that original loop pile (at least the brown version). whatever it was it seems no longer produced anywhere maybe because its known to be a faulty material not suited to UV exposure?
it also stains if it gets even a little moisture. discolours to a kind of green color.

[wonkipop]

@scallyk9

dug up the photo of the brown carpet in mine.

original factory carpet on left with unfaded section under door sill cover strips.
replacement factory stock on right obtained 30 years ago.

this is the loop pile that went in the cars.
the early black was exactly the same. except black.
same individual white fibre fuzz in the loop thread.

i was under the impression that the LE got the loop pile. higher spec. not needle loom.
@jeffbowlsby would know for sure.

its shot through with white fibres in the original carpet threads which fade rapidly over time at least in the brown. which is different to the later black (and browns) which use a pattern of black and lighter thread loops that don't have the same white fibre mixed into the original looped threads.




additional.
71 VW 411. same loop pile. (and same fade problems)



and the very last of the 412s down the line got the same mottled/salt and pepper black carpets the 914s got sometime early in 74 replacing the original black loop pile with the white fibre fuzzy look. looks identical to the merc my mate owns built around the same time. this dates from the commencement of scirocco production when VW revised all their interior materials and ranges. the last of the aircooleds got the same new stuff.
i think even the very very last of the karmann ghias got these materials.



why the hard core VW restorers are a good place to look for the original earlier type of loop pile carpet stock. tricky stuff to source. some of the english restorers/aftermarket companies look to have gotten close to correct.

if you were a hard core 411/412 restorer you have the same problem as a 73/74 914 owner. hard to imagine a hardcore 411 restorer though (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) . not much of a market!

[wonkipop]

@scallyk9 that tip of "haargan velour" was red hot mate. solid gold. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

i followed up on it and got further than i have ever managed to get before on the source for the 74 brown carpet and also exactly what it is and how to describe it.


firstly. here is "haargan velour". the yarn is spot on correct but i believe the cut is incorrect for a 914. it is however absolutely correct for 911/912 from start to 73.



this is what i was referring to as 911 carpet being fuzzy or cut plush.
the do it by cutting a loop pile. so it kind of looks like needle loom but its not.
it starts as loop pile where they cut it down. its a plush carpet and classed as a luxury carpet. feels very smooth and velvetty under foot.

the thing is the yarn is correct with the white threads in it.
which set me off down the rabbit hole.
the name for this kind of yarn is "hair yarn".
this info is so good to have found because i finally have the description for that very particular type of yarn that is in 914s (and upper end VWs like the 411/412 and the KG).

----------

second thing. i went through my L jet files to see when the black interior carpets changed over from the hair yarn type to the later mottled type.
i have only really concentrated on the L jet cars but they are being built in the same months as the LE came down the line.

here is what i have.

last early style hair yarn carpet is 06 and 07 March 1974.

first later style carpet (mottled) is 09 and 10 April 1974.

i have nothing in between on file. so the changeover is between those two dates.

this is a reliable sample of the early style carpet in a black interior.
its from a one owner very original car. very late october 1973 build.
you can see its hair yarn. but the cut is not velour cut - its full loop pile.




this is a reliable sample from a late style carpet in a black interior.
its from another one owner very original car. june 1974 build.
no hair yarn - instead alternate shaded charcoal loop pile threads. not a velour cut. full loop pile.




i have no examples on file that i consider reliable of any other carpet type.
thats not to say they might not have existed.
nor have i seen an example of a needle loom black carpet which did exist.
but these are the two loop piles that were on offer.
the loop pile was considered the better carpet of higher quality.
so LE more than likely had loop pile?
also - i have a distinct feeling that needle loom was not offered on the USA cars in 74.
they went up spec on all the USA cars in 74. vinyl on roll bars etc, whether appearance group or not, whether 1.8 or 2.0. across the board. i have a feeling that needle loom was only offered in europe where a lower spec 1.8 or 2.0 was available that was stripped down as it had been in previous years. everything i have on file with the L jets that is a reliable original condition car has loop pile. including mine which is a non appearance group 1.8 that had only a few very specific options ticked including factory sway bars.

@JeffBowlsby would know
a) what type of carpet was in an LE.
b) would also know i think much more precisely when the carpet changed loop type between earlier and later.
but given the examples of L jets i have on file there had to be a number of LE at the start of the production run with the earlier carpet.


--------------

armed with the name of the carpet you came up with i kept going.
the original colour/interior brochures for the 74 914 really are quite ambiguous.
mine lists the loop pile with the following terms.
Schlingen velours (german)
Pile type carpet (english)
Velours Boucle (french)
Velluto Brocco (italian).

i followed up on Boucle.

and this is what i got. i think its the stuff.

i've been chasing the brown so i have some spare for my 914.
this is the closest i have ever gotten. the color does not seem to match exactly but that could be a product of how it comes up on screen and how it was photographed and scanned. they are not always super accurate.





i got on to it via this page.

https://www.tapis-deluxe.com/de/3456-haarga...mah2d8mnfROnC8R

there are other carpets there. all for german old-timers. and all seem accurate and correct.

the later 914 black interior carpet (mottled) appears to be there and in the first group of carpets termed loop poles.

the earlier hair yarn boucle carpets are in the final group termed hair yarn boucle.

--------

i also found the later style (mottled carpet) here.




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i've decided that what i am going to do is contact the Tapis Deluxe company and see if i can send them a sample of my original brown carpet. i have scraps i can use all in unfaded condition. i want to see if there is an exact match available for the brown and whether its the right color.

----------

anyhow. to the best of the information i have that is the two different types of black interior carpet that was used in 74 model year.

the hair yarn charcoal loop pile.
the mottled charcoal loop pile.
all the information i have says karmann were using VW materials in the 914/4.
same as what they kitted out karmann ghias with and later sciroccos when they started being built at karmann. every kg i have looked at from that time period along with the sciroccos have exactly matching materials. another example of this is the tartan interiors that went in during 75. they came straight from the scirocco and were part of VW water cooled across the board design revamp.


given what i have seen on 911s and i know these were original cars here with original carpets, i believe they ran hair yarn velour up to about 73.
then changed to knitted (more solid color) velour in 74. velour describes the cut where they cut through the loops and left them as a fine tufted surface.
911s did not share materials with the 914. they are up the scale a bit more in terms of materials. i know nothing about the earlier 914/6s - they may have shared materials with the 911s and karmann might have fitted them out with 911 spec stuff.


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@SirAndy if its possible it might be good to shift this topic to originality.
there is useful information here for folks who might want to get hold of the real deal material for restoring the carpets in their cars.
it might not get lost there.

[JeffBowlsby]

A quick follow-up to this excellent thread, I am time challenged at the moment.

The charcoal carpet change for the LEs did occur in about the middle of the LE production. VIN 14854 is a the 9th week car and it clearly has the earlier charcoal carpet, not the salt and pepper later version (photo of 14854 from my files). I have not found a good match for this early charcoal carpet.

To my eye, the later S&P carpet looks very much like the Classic & European L907 Charcoal that Wonk posted above.