 Engine Cooling Flaps, fully closed/open position |
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| BMartin914 |
 Sep 1 2005, 11:12 PM
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#1
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|||  Group: Members Posts: 1,408 Joined: 30-May 04 From: Oregon Member No.: 2,128 Region Association: Pacific Northwest  |
I am putting the final touches on my engine after having it apart for some time. I can't recall which position the cooling flaps should be in for full closed when cold.
Should the thermostat wire be pulling on the flaps when cold and then expand to allow them to open (putting the attaching point in the upright position when warm) or does the wire pull the flaps open as it expands? Might sound like a dumb question to some, but I can't quite understand how they flow - hot vs. cold. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/unsure.gif) |
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Replies(1 - 19)
| Cap'n Krusty |
Sep 1 2005, 11:19 PM
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#2
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Cap'n Krusty Group: Members Posts: 10,794 Joined: 24-June 04 From: Santa Maria, CA Member No.: 2,246 Region Association: Central California |
The coil spring holds the flaps in the open position, as it would be hot. Think of it as a default setting. The top of the shaft is rotated fully toward the shroud, away from the crankcase. Got the picture? The Cap'n
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| MarkV |
Sep 2 2005, 12:44 AM
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#3
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Fear the Jack Stands Group: Members Posts: 1,493 Joined: 15-January 03 From: Sunny Tucson, AZ Member No.: 154 Region Association: None |
I am in the same boat. Took it apart in November, trying to get it put back in this weekend.
Please clarify for me. Is the photo below "COLD"? Drivers side flap closed, passenger side flap open exposing the oil cooler. Attached image(s) 
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| MarkV |
Sep 2 2005, 12:48 AM
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#4
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Fear the Jack Stands Group: Members Posts: 1,493 Joined: 15-January 03 From: Sunny Tucson, AZ Member No.: 154 Region Association: None |
Is the phot below the "HOT" setting? Drivers side open & passenger side oil cooler blocked.
Attached image(s) 
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| MarkV |
Sep 2 2005, 01:17 AM
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#5
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Fear the Jack Stands Group: Members Posts: 1,493 Joined: 15-January 03 From: Sunny Tucson, AZ Member No.: 154 Region Association: None |
There is a classic thread on the subject.
However, the photos are confusing. The first photo is labeled "closed for cooling" and the second photo is labeled "open for cooling". Which is it, are the flaps open for cooling or closed for cooling? Classic Thread |
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| BMartin914 |
Sep 2 2005, 07:20 AM
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#6
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||| Group: Members Posts: 1,408 Joined: 30-May 04 From: Oregon Member No.: 2,128 Region Association: Pacific Northwest |
The classic thread is helpful, but I agree it is a bit confusing.
I think that the most valuable tidbit I took from it is that the flaps are designed to be in the "full open" position if the wire were to break. So basically, the spring has no tension on it when hot and as it cools back down, the bellows pull the flaps closed. I think I have got it now. It also makes it a bit tough when you cannot see the flaps, only what is above the tin. |
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| maf914 |
Sep 2 2005, 08:23 AM
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#7
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Not a Guru! Group: Members Posts: 3,049 Joined: 30-April 03 From: Central Florida Member No.: 632 Region Association: None 
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The top photo is the COLD position and the bottom is the HOT position. The flap at the oil cooler is open when the engine is cold to allow the air to bypass the cooler so that the engine oil can heat up faster. When hot the trailing edge of the flap closes on the trailing edge of the cooler directing air through the oil cooler core to cool the oil. This is the position the flaps should be in if there were no thermostat and cable attached.
The left flap in the photos never does close off the airflow completely, but I think it does adjust the volume on that side of the engine. I'm not sure but I think it acts as a volume damper to balance the airflow with the flap on the right. I wonder how long the VW designers took to come up with this system? (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/idea.gif) |
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| SirAndy |
Sep 2 2005, 10:49 AM
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#8
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Resident German Group: Admin Posts: 41,651 Joined: 21-January 03 From: Oakland, Kalifornia Member No.: 179 Region Association: Northern California |
(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/agree.gif) you get max. cooling when the right flap covers the oil cooler as it allows a full air-stream to go through the cooler, thus. max cooling. this is where the flaps should be when the engine is warmed up ... (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/driving.gif) Andy |
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| URY914 |
Sep 2 2005, 10:56 AM
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#9
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I built the lightest 914 in the history of mankind. Group: Members Posts: 120,758 Joined: 3-February 03 From: Jacksonville, FL Member No.: 222 Region Association: None |
Now lets say you have a a/x only car. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/idea.gif)
Do you run flaps but no cable and 'stat? Or no flaps at all? |
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| SirAndy |
Sep 2 2005, 11:01 AM
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#10
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Resident German Group: Admin Posts: 41,651 Joined: 21-January 03 From: Oakland, Kalifornia Member No.: 179 Region Association: Northern California |
depends on how you get the car to the AX and back ... we have guys here that run no cooling/engine tin, no fan or fan housing, no alternator, no starter, nada ... just the bare block and a tiny computer fan on top of the oil cooler held down by a rubber band ... you'll need a support crew to push-start you before every run and you shut it off as soon as you come off the course, no cruising around in the paddock ... the car usually takes TTOD when he shows up ... (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/cool_shades.gif) Andy |
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| Aaron Cox |
Sep 2 2005, 11:04 AM
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#11
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Professional Lawn Dart Group: Retired Admin Posts: 24,541 Joined: 1-February 03 From: OC Member No.: 219 Region Association: Southern California |
i run no T stat, just let the car idle longer before you drive it...
slower warm up... (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/wink.gif) |
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| maf914 |
Sep 2 2005, 11:07 AM
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#12
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Not a Guru! Group: Members Posts: 3,049 Joined: 30-April 03 From: Central Florida Member No.: 632 Region Association: None
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Paul, I'd say check with your engine builder. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/laugh.gif)
Now for lightness you may want to form some flaps from carbon fiber. And maybe drill some holes in them. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/wacko.gif) |
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| URY914 |
Sep 2 2005, 11:08 AM
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#13
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I built the lightest 914 in the history of mankind. Group: Members Posts: 120,758 Joined: 3-February 03 From: Jacksonville, FL Member No.: 222 Region Association: None |
No thanks, not around here when it's about 110 drgrees on the asphalt. I'll run a fan with a few blades missing and the engine tin trimed back to just what I need. But I think you gotta blow some real air over those heads. And having on starter must be a PITA. P |
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| SirAndy |
Sep 2 2005, 11:57 AM
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#14
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Resident German Group: Admin Posts: 41,651 Joined: 21-January 03 From: Oakland, Kalifornia Member No.: 179 Region Association: Northern California |
not really, he always has a 4-6 man pit-crew with him ... (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/cool_shades.gif) Andy |
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| Elliot_Cannon |
Sep 2 2005, 12:16 PM
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#15
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Senior Member Group: Retired Members Posts: 1,922 Joined: 26-March 03 From: Orange County Ca Member No.: 480 Region Association: None |
With no Tstat it takes much longer to warm the engine at idle. Then you have an engine running at a longer period of time that is not at operating temp. Not good. The idea is to warm it up quickly, then keep it cool. Cheers, Elliot |
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| rhodyguy |
Sep 2 2005, 10:45 PM
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#16
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Chimp Sanctuary NW. Check it out. Group: Members Posts: 22,082 Joined: 2-March 03 From: Orion's Bell. The BELL! Member No.: 378 Region Association: Galt's Gulch |
warm and cold is a better discription than open and closed. here is the cold position. both sides raise as the thermostat relaxes and the spring on the cross bar does its job.
k Attached image(s) 
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| rhodyguy |
Sep 2 2005, 10:48 PM
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#17
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Chimp Sanctuary NW. Check it out. Group: Members Posts: 22,082 Joined: 2-March 03 From: Orion's Bell. The BELL! Member No.: 378 Region Association: Galt's Gulch |
perhaps of some interest. the drivers side is never fully closed off while cold. the little stop keeps it open to some degree, at all times.
k Attached image(s) 
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| rhodyguy |
Sep 2 2005, 10:54 PM
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#18
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Chimp Sanctuary NW. Check it out. Group: Members Posts: 22,082 Joined: 2-March 03 From: Orion's Bell. The BELL! Member No.: 378 Region Association: Galt's Gulch |
damn. i guess i have to take off the flaps and cross bar to paint them. this is when i all starts to go south. wait!! no one can see them when all the tin is on!
k |
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| brant |
Sep 2 2005, 11:03 PM
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#19
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914 Wizard Group: Members Posts: 11,626 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Colorado Member No.: 47 Region Association: Rocky Mountains 
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the last couple of -4 motors I had came back from my builder with sheetmetal screws holding the flaps into the hot position....
of course it was a trailered car at that point. brant |
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| rhodyguy |
Sep 3 2005, 08:42 AM
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#20
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Chimp Sanctuary NW. Check it out. Group: Members Posts: 22,082 Joined: 2-March 03 From: Orion's Bell. The BELL! Member No.: 378 Region Association: Galt's Gulch |
i can't imagine a worse situtation with a slower warm up and carbs arron.
k |
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