Building Porsche 914 in Europe with some mods, Modified engine, wiring, interior - new project Options

[chmillman]

Yeah, I would have a tendency to agree, nothing really jibes here, it does rather look like a Frankenstein job…

[Front yard mechanic]

Just fill in the wrong numbers with bondo and blame it on the dapo

[Pyetookh]

@chmillman has better eyes than me. good thing i am not a pilot. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

but since the vwpp# is an 11 matching the karmann plate that settles the question of the vin i was highlighting. the 7000 range its in is not right by a long shot. let alone the L13K yellow paint code which is as pointed out a 73 on color only.

a couple of other observations. the dash is not right for a 71. it would have had a central demister vent and would lack the side vents at either end of dashboard in the dash face. additionally the seats and backpad are the dual fixed seat variety.
the interior is at minimum a 72 onwards. has end vents in dash and two adjustable seats.

my conclusion is that its likely the car is a cut and shut job. 71 front end cut and welded to a 73 or 74 from the tank or thereabouts back. or perhaps a right front quarter replacing the original, but the spare wheel well tends to indicate its an entire 71 front end.

its probably a 73 with a 71 front cut and shut. the dash heater vent controls might be a give away if that is the original dash. i think the heater slide controls were slightly revised from 73 to 74. not sure. jeff bowlsby could probably tell.

additionally taking a close look at the engine shot. it does not appear to be a 1.7 or 1.8 block. no engine number in the usual spot that i can see. and i don't think its a 914 2.0 due to sheet metal but i could be mistaken. the fan casting is definitely of the type found on bus engines. the timing hole is not drilled out.

maybe the greek registration details are correct where it is identified as a 73?
somewhere along the way something happened that required complete replacement of the front end and the VIN was not swapped over.
very mysterious.
the vwpp# (karmann number) is likely relating to 11th week of 1973 production date.

in answer to chmillman question - when is the vin applied or allocated.
vin is done right at the end of the production line. when car is complete.
the vwpp# is assigned right at the start when the body shell is completed.
that number is a build sheet number and follows the car down the production line. its on the top of every vw build sheet.
its not particular to the karmann factory - every vw built at that time used the coded numbers with adjustments to what the numbers where depending on the model and the factory it was being built at.

given the vin allocation in the production sequence i can understand a car with an earlier in the model year vwpp# getting a Vin number much later in the range. the car or body shell might be held over and then much later completed. either weeks out of range or maybe even months. what i can't understand is an earlier vin (in terms of range and date) being assigned to a later vwpp#. i don't think vin plates sat around on the shelf waiting for a car to be built. the vins were all stamped and assigned on the day the car was completed. anyway its academic when it comes to this car, there is no way that vin and front goes with the rest of the car including its vwpp#.

Thank you very much for your write up here. I really appreciate your knowledge (IMG:style_emoticons/default/pray.gif)
But I don´t really think this is Frankenstein job as such:
1. Original Sunflower yellow seems to be the first paint everywhere (front and rear)
2. I can´t see any signs of non original welding between front and rear
3. Most later parts (73´s) were supplied from burnt donor car. I got plenty of spare parts with my 914 (3x gearbox, 2x 1.7L and 1x 1.8L engines, 4x seats, 2x dashboards, 3+3 bumpers, etc.)
Obviously I can be wrong ´cause I have nowhere near your experience (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)

Yes. You´re right.
My car has a Bus engine fitted. Unfortunately there´s no engine number so I only suspect it is 2.0L. But I want to sell this and build "Porsche" engine 1911cc on Webers from scratch.
Gearbox is also replaced for side-shifter intead of the original tail-shifter.


I believe that this donor car was complete 1.7L from 1973 with burnt engine bay and partially interior. It was stripped down and some parts installed onto mine 914. I have a really bad access to it so can´t check chassis number now but engine number is EA012447




Hopefully it makes a bit more sense now

[wonkipop]

if both those cars, the 71 and the 73 (burnt) are euro market cars that never left europe then that explains the front trunk lack of reinforcing. ROW cars never got the semi circular reinforcement. nor did they get side impact bars in the doors as the USA cars did from 73 on (think it was 73).

so yes, 71 not a cut and shut.

but...........still does not explain the karmann tag on the 71 with a 73 onwards paint color and code not available as far as i know in 71. and the odd seemingly out of sequence VIN number in relation to VW production code number.

where the interior comes from now is clear. the 73 interior has been shifted across to the 71. hence the vents in the sides of the dash board front piece.

taking a look at your photos the vin number stamped on the right hand side wheel well looks a bit strange. as if its been welded in/on? bit hard to tell from photos if thats so but does not look quite the way the factory did it. factory put a bit of tape there before shell was painted its final color. then peeled the tape off and stamped the number into the unpainted area. what you have looks a little different to that. but very hard to tell from your photos.

my guess is the VIN is correct probably. but something funny is going on with that VW production number and k plate that i cant think why it is like that.
thinking about it i would suspect the karmann plate and VW production body number as being worth a bit more investigation as the plate certainly would seem not to belong to a 71.

[Pyetookh]

if both those cars, the 71 and the 73 (burnt) are euro market cars that never left europe then that explains the front trunk lack of reinforcing. ROW cars never got the semi circular reinforcement. nor did they get side impact bars in the doors as the USA cars did from 73 on (think it was 73).

so yes, 71 not a cut and shut.

but...........still does not explain the karmann tag on the 71 with a 73 onwards paint color and code not available as far as i know in 71. and the odd seemingly out of sequence VIN number in relation to VW production code number.

where the interior comes from now is clear. the 73 interior has been shifted across to the 71. hence the vents in the sides of the dash board front piece.

taking a look at your photos the vin number stamped on the right hand side wheel well looks a bit strange. as if its been welded in/on? bit hard to tell from photos if thats so but does not look quite the way the factory did it. factory put a bit of tape there before shell was painted its final color. then peeled the tape off and stamped the number into the unpainted area. what you have looks a little different to that. but very hard to tell from your photos.

my guess is the VIN is correct probably. but something funny is going on with that VW production number and k plate that i cant think why it is like that.
thinking about it i would suspect the karmann plate and VW production body number as being worth a bit more investigation as the plate certainly would seem not to belong to a 71.

Because there´s no history coming with this car I´m happy to dig a bit deeper to learn something about it. If you are happy to help I´m ready to make a few more detailed pictures and scrape some paint off here and there.
Ultimately it doesn´t really matter what year it is and what the right paint should be because I´m not gonna restore it to its original looks anyway. But I´m curious.

Thank you all for your time and support (IMG:style_emoticons/default/flag.gif)

[Pyetookh]

It´s time to tackle my wiring and car body.

Wiring:
My central locking with alarm and heated seat pads arrived last night. Power windows are on their way. Need to add these into spare harness I´m going to refurbish.





Has anyone tried to create a wiring diagram with all these add ons, please?

[Pyetookh]

This is how I would like my car to look. White or gold wheels? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/idea.gif)
(Yes. The rear caliper is not right (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif) )

[flipb]

This is how I would like my car to look. White or gold wheels? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/idea.gif)
(Yes. The rear caliper is not right (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif) )

I don't hate either of them, but the blue+gold looks very Subaru to me.

[Jack Standz]

@chmillman has better eyes than me. good thing i am not a pilot. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

but since the vwpp# is an 11 matching the karmann plate that settles the question of the vin i was highlighting. the 7000 range its in is not right by a long shot. let alone the L13K yellow paint code which is as pointed out a 73 on color only.

a couple of other observations. the dash is not right for a 71. it would have had a central demister vent and would lack the side vents at either end of dashboard in the dash face. additionally the seats and backpad are the dual fixed seat variety.
the interior is at minimum a 72 onwards. has end vents in dash and two adjustable seats.

my conclusion is that its likely the car is a cut and shut job. 71 front end cut and welded to a 73 or 74 from the tank or thereabouts back. or perhaps a right front quarter replacing the original, but the spare wheel well tends to indicate its an entire 71 front end.

its probably a 73 with a 71 front cut and shut. the dash heater vent controls might be a give away if that is the original dash. i think the heater slide controls were slightly revised from 73 to 74. not sure. jeff bowlsby could probably tell.

additionally taking a close look at the engine shot. it does not appear to be a 1.7 or 1.8 block. no engine number in the usual spot that i can see. and i don't think its a 914 2.0 due to sheet metal but i could be mistaken. the fan casting is definitely of the type found on bus engines. the timing hole is not drilled out.

maybe the greek registration details are correct where it is identified as a 73?
somewhere along the way something happened that required complete replacement of the front end and the VIN was not swapped over.
very mysterious.
the vwpp# (karmann number) is likely relating to 11th week of 1973 production date.

in answer to chmillman question - when is the vin applied or allocated.
vin is done right at the end of the production line. when car is complete.
the vwpp# is assigned right at the start when the body shell is completed.
that number is a build sheet number and follows the car down the production line. its on the top of every vw build sheet.
its not particular to the karmann factory - every vw built at that time used the coded numbers with adjustments to what the numbers where depending on the model and the factory it was being built at.

given the vin allocation in the production sequence i can understand a car with an earlier in the model year vwpp# getting a Vin number much later in the range. the car or body shell might be held over and then much later completed. either weeks out of range or maybe even months. what i can't understand is an earlier vin (in terms of range and date) being assigned to a later vwpp#. i don't think vin plates sat around on the shelf waiting for a car to be built. the vins were all stamped and assigned on the day the car was completed. anyway its academic when it comes to this car, there is no way that vin and front goes with the rest of the car including its vwpp#.

Thank you very much for your write up here. I really appreciate your knowledge (IMG:style_emoticons/default/pray.gif)
But I don´t really think this is Frankenstein job as such:
1. Original Sunflower yellow seems to be the first paint everywhere (front and rear)
2. I can´t see any signs of non original welding between front and rear
3. Most later parts (73´s) were supplied from burnt donor car. I got plenty of spare parts with my 914 (3x gearbox, 2x 1.7L and 1x 1.8L engines, 4x seats, 2x dashboards, 3+3 bumpers, etc.)
Obviously I can be wrong ´cause I have nowhere near your experience (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)

Yes. You´re right.
My car has a Bus engine fitted. Unfortunately there´s no engine number so I only suspect it is 2.0L. But I want to sell this and build "Porsche" engine 1911cc on Webers from scratch.
Gearbox is also replaced for side-shifter intead of the original tail-shifter.


I believe that this donor car was complete 1.7L from 1973 with burnt engine bay and partially interior. It was stripped down and some parts installed onto mine 914. I have a really bad access to it so can´t check chassis number now but engine number is EA012447




Hopefully it makes a bit more sense now

Based on the engine code, the donor car looks to be a1972 or 1973 1.7 liter. However, it looks to be willow green (paint code L63K) that was only available in 1971 or 1972. So, if it matters and based on the paint color guess (if correct) it is likely a 1972. If that's the case, this means it should have come with a tailshift transmission. Which also means the donor's transmission may not readily work in the yellow car, as discussed below. Don't know any examples of anyone putting a tailshift transmission in a sideshift car. But, have seen lots of examples of the opposite.

Ignoring the VIN number and chasis number issues for the moment (and my apologies if I missed you mentioning it), but did your yellow car originally (or still has) come with a tailshift transmission and the different shift rod mounts attached to the firewall? If not, that could point you in the direction of 1973, since sideshift transmissions started in 1973. Others might want to add their knowledge to these guesses.

Best wishes for your project!! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[Jack Standz]

Does your firewall shifter mount look something like this in the yellow car?

[Pyetookh]

Does your firewall shifter mount look something like this in the yellow car?

Nope. It looks like this:

[Pyetookh]

Yeah, I would have a tendency to agree, nothing really jibes here, it does rather look like a Frankenstein job…

Yep. I must agree on this.

My car seems to be a mix of everything.
It looks I have spare parts from 1973, 1975 and 1971.
Doors are later window lifters but no US reinforcement.
I have full plastic bumpers as well as two sets of chrome ones.
I must also agree with wonkipop´s previous post when he mentioned that stamped VIN also doesn´t look right.

It all doesn´t matter to me that much. I just need to make it all work again (IMG:style_emoticons/default/driving-girl.gif)

[ValcoOscar]

This is how I would like my car to look. White or gold wheels? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/idea.gif)
(Yes. The rear caliper is not right (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif) )

I wonder why I like your color choice (IMG:style_emoticons/default/idea.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/hide.gif)

[914werke]

Consider keeping it Willow Green. Cool color!

[Jack Standz]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) (we have a '72 originally in this color)

But, unfortunately the donor (not this car) is the one that's willow green (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif) .

[SirAndy]

Does your firewall shifter mount look something like this in the yellow car?

Nope. It looks like this:

I'm no expert but that doesn't look right. I don't think your car should be a side-shifter.

I tend to agree with @wonkipop that this looks like two cars stitched together.
This was a somewhat common practice back in the day to salvage accident cars. If so, there should be tell tale welding beads hiding somewhere, usually around either the front/middle/back of the passenger cabin.
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/popcorn[1].gif)

[Pyetookh]

I wonder why I like your color choice (IMG:style_emoticons/default/idea.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/hide.gif)

Your car looks fabulous. Is it on 16"? Can you share with us your wheels and tires size, please? What rear lower springs do you use?

Thank you

[Pyetookh]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) (we have a '72 originally in this color)

But, unfortunately the donor (not this car) is the one that's willow green (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif) .

Funny enough my wife would probably welcome if I go green. Or orange.
But I´m sorry I like blue colour a bit more. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ar15.gif)

When I think about it I had tens of cars and motorcycles and none of them was in green colour (IMG:style_emoticons/default/huh.gif) Maybe it´s time to do something about it. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

I tried to imagine my project in different colour combinations...