No F-ing oil baffle on my new to me engine block!, Do I need to return the engine case or is there some option? Options

[flxzcat]

Guys,

I am building a 2.4 engine for my lightweight canyon carver.

I picked up a reworked, ready to final clean and assemble case from "EMS" in L.A.

After doing much work including clearancing of the case, I realized that there were no slots for mounting the baffle? "G" knew exactly what I was planning for this case.



Is there some option or will I have to return the case and start over (IMG:style_emoticons/default/headbang.gif)

Thanks in advance,
Paul VDL

[Superhawk996]

Well that’s a bummer.

Dry sump. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/shades.gif)

[JamesJ]

If you are referring to EMW, I am not surprised at all.

[Jack Standz]

Well, sorry to hear you didn't get what you wanted. It does, look like your case has the thicker/stronger and more desirable deck for a larger 2.4 liter motor.

The case I'm working on lately is a "W" case but, does have the provisions for a windage tray (or oil slosh tray if you prefer). Yours must be an early '72 or earlier?

As already mentioned, a dry sump is an (expensive) option. You could extend the push rod tubes or run so called "windage" tubes like those used in formula V by the type 1 guys. Get a deep sump and run an extended oil pickup, fill it with less oil (?).

Good luck with your project!

[Jack Standz]

And there's always the opinion that windage trays in a 914 make things worse as oil drain back to the sump is a problem.

Checkout Jake Raby's comment:

[bdstone914]

@flxzcat

Did you call George and discuss it with him?

[cgnj]

Looking at that picture of the case, I have questions. I've built 2270 with VW journals when it was a dark art. That's not where the case needs to be cleared.

How were you going to get to 2.4 liters? Big bore? Long stroke? Little bit of both? VW rod journals? Did you discuss all of these issues with Jorge? I searched and didn't see a thread by you spitballing your build. There are a lot of people on this list much smarter than me. I'm sure they would have be pleased to offer their experience to you.

Now ask yourself what possible motivation he would have to exchange that case after you took material off of it and publicly roasted his business? The business hasn't survived for nearly 50 years by screwing over their customers.

[flxzcat]

Looking at that picture of the case, I have questions. I've built 2270 with VW journals when it was a dark art. That's not where the case needs to be cleared.

How were you going to get to 2.4 liters? Big bore? Long stroke? Little bit of both? VW rod journals? Did you discuss all of these issues with Jorge? I searched and didn't see a thread by you spitballing your build. There are a lot of people on this list much smarter than me. I'm sure they would have be pleased to offer their experience to you.

Now ask yourself what possible motivation he would have to exchange that case after you took material off of it and publicly roasted his business? The business hasn't survived for nearly 50 years by screwing over their customers.

My case needed to be cleared in these areas. I installed the 82mm crank and 5.325" Porsche 914 big end H beam rods to guide me with 1.5-2mm clearance.

"J or G" has been involved with this project through several visits in the last few weeks.

I don't need to "spitball" the build if I get the correct parts as advertised. I have already had an incorrectly machined case and a set of rods with bushings that are -.001" (interference fit) bushings less than 22mm advertised pin size. Why would a rod manufacturer do this? Anyway, my KB 22mm piston pins would not fit the "22mm" small end rod bushings.

I think "J or G" is great and a very nice person. He does not have bad intentions here and has been helpful and fully attentive to me and has a world of experience but there is a severe lack of QC with certain products going out the door. They are not alone. I have had bad expensive parts from others that I am willing to name in private emails.

I will call J or G this morning. I only discovered this last night and he had already gone home.

[flxzcat]

I am thinking I should run the "deep sump" and lower the oil level to compensate and raise the engine 1/2" or so for some slight added clearance and also add a strong metal bracket to the steel beam to protect the sump from 2x4's or rocks that I might run over.

Those with experience please let me know if this seems foolish.

The other option may be to weld a modified version of my 2.0 oil baffle to the oil pick-up and possibly add some locating tabs that could be screwed to various gusset features in the case casting. Obviously the rubber seals are out.

Anyhoo, I'll look at this today to see what is realistic.

[Jack Standz]

Current plan is to run a deep sump with a modified "windage" tray on a 2,6 liter TypeIV. So, am interested in how it works for you, if you decide to go that route. But, ours will be a street only car. Although, we too will be dodging those 2x4s and speed bumps. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

But, because yours didn't come with the slots for the tray, it seems a reasonable option is to not try to fabricate a way to add one. The type iv case is designed in a way to reduce oil hitting the crank, including with the lifter bosses in between them and the crankshaft anyway, so how much does the tray actually do? (don't know)

The tradeoff with the tray is between less oil slosh and slower oil drainback to the sump. Maybe it's more important to focus on preventing oil starvation than windage on a type IV motor?

[flxzcat]

Agree oil starvation is primary. Seems to me, the cam and lifters are acting as a baffle in a way. The tray seems more for slosh control.

I have lightly trimmed the right-side baffle wings where they interfered with case ribs. The left side do not interfere. I have bent a little bit more angle to the wings on each side of the baffle so that they will not touch at their tips on the case if they vibrate and I have also welded the baffle to the pick-up tube in three small spots including the 6mm screw. The whole assembly can be removed and installed as one part.




Still thinking about the other options. I hate decisions like this!

[Ninja]

There was a mod recently shown on the forum which added little spacer nuts to the pick up bell to reduce the tendency of breaking the case by over tightening the center plate nut.

It looked like a "must do" to me.
It would add another couple points of rigidity for your baffle/oil pump pick up critter you made.

That looks like a very acceptable method to add the baffle in your case!

[Ninja]

There was a mod recently shown on the forum which added little spacer nuts to the pick up bell to reduce the tendency of breaking the case by over tightening the center plate nut.

It looked like a "must do" to me.
It would add another couple points of rigidity for your baffle/oil pump pick up critter you made.

That looks like a very acceptable method to add the baffle in your case!

Found it: originally on another forum. I like the fact that you can adjust the leg length before you finish welding.

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=645213

[Ninja]

Raby's baffles had many more drainage slots. Try to find a picture of one and copy it.

Pretty much every depression had a slot if I remember correctly.

[flxzcat]

There was a mod recently shown on the forum which added little spacer nuts to the pick up bell to reduce the tendency of breaking the case by over tightening the center plate nut.

It looked like a "must do" to me.
It would add another couple points of rigidity for your baffle/oil pump pick up critter you made.

That looks like a very acceptable method to add the baffle in your case!

Ya, I saw that post the other day before I encountered this issue. Your right, it's probably a good idea for the stability if nothing else. There was another guy who just welded 3 non-adjustable tabs to do the same thing.

[914werke]

[914werke]

[Jack Standz]

Here's one version of a modified windage tray, although a little hard to see.

Don't know what version we'll put in the project motor yet. Can't find another photo of one that's much more modified (think it was from a Raby motor), but maybe searching around, you can track it down. Probably the best choice is to make/increase drain back holes, slots and probably be sure to put them right below the pushrod tube ends.

[GregAmy]

Dry sump. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/shades.gif)

This is the way.

[wonkipop]

Dry sump. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/shades.gif)

This is the way.

either that or avoid sweepers. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

why i got skinny tyres on my stoopid 1.8. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beer.gif)