Missing dip stick, 914 1.7 missing tube and stick? Options

[wonkipop]

righteo -

here is what i think you have.
understand i have had to do a bit of extrapolation work to come up with this -
though i have a full up to date 914 Parts Catalogue - i don't have them for the full years for the 411 and for the bus. they cut out at end of 72 MY.

but here is how the parts numbers work.

its 9 numbers in three groups of three with a letter at the end.

your part number on the sticker is
021 100 031 B X

first three numbers. 021.
means twin carb type 4 engine (regardless of model - could be 411/412/bus or 914 - any year.

second three numbers. 001
means replacement engine.

third three numbers. 031
means short engine.
normally what would go here is three numbers that tell you what engine it is and to some extent what model it was in.
for instance the third three numbers when it comes to 411s and 412s goes like this/
025 = V engine or Z engine. a V engine was the magnesium case twin carb 411 engine and lasted only first year of production. aug 68 to july 69. a Z engine was the aluminium case twin carb engine 1700 cc. from aug 69 up to the 1800 engine intro in aug 73. the 1800 engine, either a AT or AN had 027 for the last three numbers.
also the W engines (EFI 1.7) used the 025 number at first and change to the 027 number. but these all had 022 as the first three numbers so can be separated from the carb engines with those first three numbers. the later EA, EB (1.7 EFI) and EC (1.8 EFI) used different last three numbers again.

when the AN engine for a 914 was sold as an exchange short engine it went like this.
full new engine was part # 021 001 027 P.
exchange short engine was part #021 001 031 P X.
the 027 changed to 031. P identified it as what it went in. the version it was for which ever models it suited. all exchange short engines, no matter the type (or model - beetle, ghia, 411, bus etc) appear to have used 031 as the last group of three numbers.

hope this makes sense to you.

i have found the B version.
021 001 027 B was for a Bus.
66 hp. i believe it was 1700 cc capacity.

so i think that based on the info i have.
this started out as 74 1.8 twin carb euro 412 engine and was rebuilt as 1.7L twin carb bus engine. its possible its a 1.8 capacity. but the B tends to point very strongly to it being a bus engine. so sold as a bus short motor.
which i believe means its got a bus camshaft. different torque curve and power from a 914 or 411 engine. different flywheel too it think. heavier.

of course it may not be that way now. it could well have been rebuilt again along the way. with different internals again.

i believe VW Canada stopped supplying these exchange engines back in the mid to late 80s. the usual story. once 10 years was elapsed after models ceased production VW was no longer obliged to supply spare parts and dropped out of producing these.
went over to aftermarket companies beyond that time.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

[PapaNorse]

The Picture you have been waiting for... drum role...

[Jack Standz]

Happy New Year!

Thanks for the videos and the photo. Although the videos made me a little seasick (IMG:style_emoticons/default/barf.gif).

Wonkipop laid out a very good analysis of his educated guesses what this motor was, is and what vehicle it originally came in. Value his expertise.

At this point, not really much else to say, other than you probably won't know what motor you really have without a tear down. It looks like it was built for carbs, probably rebuilt for carbs, but likely also for a bus. If you know the car's history, like where it was originally delivered, where its spent its life so far, etc., it'll only add to the novelty I suspect. If it runs and is not yet ready for another rebuild, why not just run it? Maybe lots of low horsepower fun.

When you're ready, take a look at the case to see if it is or was setup with a mechanical fuel pump (probably). At its current age, it's likely time to replace (with either another mechanical or electrical one). Suspect that this case didn't originallyhave a dipstick in the 914 location (although explore the area below the tin by the oil filler tower some more) and the 411/412 location looks like it has been blocked off somehow. The tin cover by the alternator is odd, not like a normal 914, probably hiding a blocked off oil dipstick tube or other modificationto the case.

Seen some odd things on 914s, but have never seen a motor where someone closed things off so that you can't check the oil ever. You sir win 2025's most oddball VW motor found in a 914!!

[Jack Standz]

One more thought.

The Type IV motors were mated to something like 4 different size flywheels and (for example) the bus has the pilot bearing in the crankshaft, not the flywheel like the 914. The 914 (901) transmission has a different input shaft than a bus.

If you ever remove the motor/transmission from the car, it might be a good idea to make sure yours is done correctly.

[930cabman]

Happy New Year!

Thanks for the videos and the photo. Although the videos made me a little seasick (IMG:style_emoticons/default/barf.gif).

Wonkipop laid out a very good analysis of his educated guesses what this motor was, is and what vehicle it originally came in. Value his expertise.

At this point, not really much else to say, other than you probably won't know what motor you really have without a tear down. It looks like it was built for carbs, probably rebuilt for carbs, but likely also for a bus. If you know the car's history, like where it was originally delivered, where its spent its life so far, etc., it'll only add to the novelty I suspect. If it runs and is not yet ready for another rebuild, why not just run it? Maybe lots of low horsepower fun.

When you're ready, take a look at the case to see if it is or was setup with a mechanical fuel pump (probably). At its current age, it's likely time to replace (with either another mechanical or electrical one). Suspect that this case didn't originallyhave a dipstick in the 914 location (although explore the area below the tin by the oil filler tower some more) and the 411/412 location looks like it has been blocked off somehow. The tin cover by the alternator is odd, not like a normal 914, probably hiding a blocked off oil dipstick tube or other modificationto the case.

Seen some odd things on 914s, but have never seen a motor where someone closed things off so that you can't check the oil ever. You sir win 2025's most oddball VW motor found in a 914!!

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif)

Maybe someone had the great idea of a "sealed engine" many years ago

I have been wondering the same, how does one check the oil

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/lol-2.gif)

[wonkipop]

One more thought.

The Type IV motors were mated to something like 4 different size flywheels and (for example) the bus has the pilot bearing in the crankshaft, not the flywheel like the 914. The 914 (901) transmission has a different input shaft than a bus.

If you ever remove the motor/transmission from the car, it might be a good idea to make sure yours is done correctly.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

spot on. pretty heavy flywheel on the buses.

as you note, the engine could be anything by now and could have the right guts in it for a 914. the crank case has sure been on a big journey in life.
but no dipstick is taking risky living on a wing and a prayer to a new level. my hats off to that kind of confidence whoever did it. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

i can understand VW canada sourcing 411/412 crankcases wherever they could get them for bus motor rebuilds.
poor old bus motors took a bit of a flogging in life pushing around that big brick on wheels.

[wonkipop]

Happy New Year!

Thanks for the videos and the photo. Although the videos made me a little seasick (IMG:style_emoticons/default/barf.gif).

Wonkipop laid out a very good analysis of his educated guesses what this motor was, is and what vehicle it originally came in. Value his expertise.

At this point, not really much else to say, other than you probably won't know what motor you really have without a tear down. It looks like it was built for carbs, probably rebuilt for carbs, but likely also for a bus. If you know the car's history, like where it was originally delivered, where its spent its life so far, etc., it'll only add to the novelty I suspect. If it runs and is not yet ready for another rebuild, why not just run it? Maybe lots of low horsepower fun.

When you're ready, take a look at the case to see if it is or was setup with a mechanical fuel pump (probably). At its current age, it's likely time to replace (with either another mechanical or electrical one). Suspect that this case didn't originallyhave a dipstick in the 914 location (although explore the area below the tin by the oil filler tower some more) and the 411/412 location looks like it has been blocked off somehow. The tin cover by the alternator is odd, not like a normal 914, probably hiding a blocked off oil dipstick tube or other modificationto the case.

Seen some odd things on 914s, but have never seen a motor where someone closed things off so that you can't check the oil ever. You sir win 2025's most oddball VW motor found in a 914!!

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif)

Maybe someone had the great idea of a "sealed engine" many years ago

I have been wondering the same, how does one check the oil

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/lol-2.gif)

the evil engineering genius behind the 914, one ferdinand piech still holds the record for the longest dipstick ever proposed for a car. refer his aborted before birth replacement for the beetle. a mid engined proto golf hatchback with a dipstick at least 6 foot long that folded in half to reach the laid flat engine from the rear hatchback. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)
and an engine as sealed in as the boxster finally achieved. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

but even he chickened out of a imprisoned and utterly sealed engine.
however we have them now. ...... cars without dipsticks.
you gotta trust that electronic sensor telling you what to do via the dashboard.
not for me......glad i lived in the time when dipsticks ruled the world before an electronic asterioid wiped them out.






oh yeah. happy new year to you all from north antarctica.
we got here a day before you guys. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)
i'd like to think we are in front but i know we are behind. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

[PapaNorse]

I cant thank you all for your input and advice!!! Going to keep exploring the car! Next project is the heat exchange.. I see they have been capped. Maybe time for headers (IMG:style_emoticons/default/aktion035.gif)