Neo914 single piece door windows, the plan at least... Options

[Qarl]

If you change the rake of the windshield, the targa top won't fit correctly.

[redshift]

It will if you add material to the hoop, and section out the top.

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/laugh.gif)

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/huh.gif)


M

[jonwatts]

What about the curvature, isn't that a crucial factor? If you could find an oversized window with the right curve it might be possible to have it ground down along one or more edges to meet your needs. Might be cheaper than having new windows made.

Do you guys find yourself staring a little too closely at all the other cars on the road looking for donors? (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif)

I do.

[Brent]

The MR2's were promoted to the compactor! I can't believe they were gone so quickly. There was still quite a bit for the vultures to pick clean.

I did take several picks of Rx7's there. They have many generations available.

Did you also catch the 944? The rear flares are in great shape. Never saw that done in a teener before. Someone scavanged only half of the calipers. I wonder why?

-B

[redshift]

Uhhmmm... Mr2... (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/unsure.gif) Miata... (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/unsure.gif) ... Mr2... Miata... (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/unsure.gif)

You know, It may not have been a Miata? (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/unsure.gif)

I may remember the wrong thing.. is that scary, or 'ok'? (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/rolleyes.gif) ... ok, well I am going to go now..

Uhhmmm I looked on google, and I am positve.



M

That I remember it wrong.. it absolutely is the Mr2.. jees..

[Tobra]

QUOTE (jonwatts @ Sep 5 2005, 01:00 PM)

What about the curvature, isn't that a crucial factor? If you could find an oversized window with the right curve it might be possible to have it ground down along one or more edges to meet your needs. Might be cheaper than having new windows made. Do you guys find yourself staring a little too closely at all the other cars on the road looking for donors? (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif) I do.

Just don't stare and crash. A piece of posterboard would make a nice, relatively stiff template. Have you looked at how this mod has been accomplished on other vehicles?

It seems to me that if the curvature of the glass was right, this suggestion is the hot ticket

[redshift]

A hot rod guy would make aluminum templates, wussies.


M

[neo914-6]

QUOTE (redshift @ Sep 5 2005, 05:02 PM)

A hot rod guy would make aluminum templates, wussies. M

Y'all I just need a template for rough measurements. I've found one close so now I can make a rigid template or buy it for trial fit. Besides they don't allow bringing in "parts" into this yard, I have to be somewhat (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/ph34r.gif)

Yes Jon most glass is curved...

[cha914]

Might want to take a look at early - mid 90's subaru's ... My wife has a 93 legacy and they have the big window without an upper frame.

I just eyeballed it tonight and it looks like the windshield has more rake, but it might be good to open up the doors and see how they supported the window glass without the upper door frame. I measured her glass at ~30 inches wide and ~17 high fyi.

Lemme know and if you want I can snap some pics...looks like a fun project.

Tony

[neo914-6]

QUOTE (Qarl @ Sep 5 2005, 12:48 PM)

If you change the rake of the windshield, the targa top won't fit correctly.

Karl,

Change usually prompts more change. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/laugh.gif)

The BBR kits require more rake and they have to cut the front to back length of the top.

The guys who section the a pillar ala hot rods actually have to add top sections in both directions. The bad thing is it won't fit in the trunk and is heavier...

If I can keep the rake, I will. I like most of the profile and think it makes the 914 distinctive.

[neo914-6]

QUOTE (cha914 @ Sep 5 2005, 07:09 PM)

Might want to take a look at early - mid 90's subaru's ... My wife has a 93 legacy and they have the big window without an upper frame. I just eyeballed it tonight and it looks like the windshield has more rake, but it might be good to open up the doors and see how they supported the window glass without the upper door frame. I measured her glass at ~30 inches wide and ~17 high fyi. Lemme know and if you want I can snap some pics...looks like a fun project. Tony

Tony,

I wouldn't mind seeing the mechanism if you were planning on opening it up. That window is too short and tall. frameless glass requires alot more bracing so cars usually have larger doors with more space...

[Aaron Cox]

did you look at volvo 740/760's? they have a pretty upright front window also...
(IMG:http://carad.ebayimg.com/i11/03/a/04/cd/a0/8b_4.JPG)

[neo914-6]

QUOTE (Aaron Cox @ Sep 5 2005, 07:55 PM)

did you look at volvo 740/760's? they have a pretty upright front window also... (IMG:http://carad.ebayimg.com/i11/03/a/04/cd/a0/8b_4.JPG)

I looked at earlier Volvos but I'll bet these have more rake. The newer the more rake. Even the 80's cars had more rake. You also have to look for coupes because the glass in 4 doors are too narrow.

Did you help Jason? I notice he hasn't posted his Boxster thread yet...

[aircooledboy]

Felix,

First, you are wasting your time looking at any window that has a frame. Here's why: If you remove the 914's vent glass, you will have a frameless door window. Frameless windows require alignment fixtures on the glass as well as the door frame to get them into the right spot and hold them there when they close, and to keep them in the right general orientation when they are open. Framed windows are held in the right position by the frame as the window goes up and down, and don't need or have the alignment fixtures. The frame steadys the glass while the regulator raises and lowers it. A 914 is a semi-framed window, because it uses the front channel between the vent and the door glass as the primary guide when the window moves up and down. A semi-frame window, like a frame window, does not need alignment fixtures. The problem with looking at a framed window as your donor is that you can't add the neccessary fixtures to a door glass that wasn't made for them, because they are attached using holes through the glass, and you can't add holes to a tempered door glass. Thus, you won't be able to take a glass from a framed door and make it work in a frameless application because it wont have guide fixtures, and they can't be added.

Second, my educated guess is that you would not be able to put a fully functional frameless glass in a 914 door for 2 reasons: 1. You would have a nearly impossible time fab'ing the necessary fixture guides into the inside of the door cavity. Those fixture guides are usually part of a pretty sturdy framework stamped into the door's frame. I think that would require a ton of pretty precise support engineering and fab, and in the end, a 914 door is just too narrow to accommodate the whole deal. Assuming you get past that hurdle, you get to the bigger obstacle; 2. Even when fully raised, frameless door glasses have a large portion of glass below the top doorline that would not likely fit into the short 914 door body. Frameless windows need a good 20%ish of their glass mass to stay inside the door even when fully raised to provide enough leverage for the fixtures to hold the glass firmly in place. A stock 914 regulator rests within an inch or so of the bottom of the door when the window is all the way open. That means that when you add the needed extra glass at the bottom of a frameless glass, you would not be able to roll the window all the way down, because the glass will bottom out inside the door. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/sad.gif)

Just my .02 based on my years in the auto glass trade. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/beerchug.gif)

This post has been edited by aircooledboy: Sep 6 2005, 07:28 PM

[neo914-6]

Chris,

I am more confident because it's already been done but I believe the window did not fully retract which may support your 20% estimate. I realize finding an existing glass the right size is unlikely, then to make any glass rigid without a frame is more challenging especially in the small door. The first order is finding a glass with a close enough shape to utilize in designing the door frame and structure that it will need when fully extended. If I don't find one, a plexiglass piece will be used for development, weighted of course. It may take several iterations but it's a start...

good input!

[aircooledboy]

To be honest, when you said you had a quote for making a one of a kind tempered door glass that did not make you faint, I was amazed. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif) Last time I looked into doing that for a guy, it was about $1500 for the 1st door glass, $500 each after that, and no guarantees as to fit. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/ohmy.gif) And remember, you need to double that, since R&L door glasses have opposite profiles. I can ask my old buds at the glass shop if that has changed for the better. I am their "corporate counsel" now (I take care of all the employee legal problems, and I get all my glass needs at cost (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/laugh.gif) ).

We used to have a PPG catalog of all auto glass pieces and there was a drawing of each glass, but no dimensions as I recall. If that interests you, I can see if I can get one for you. Not sure how much help it would be to you here.

[neo914-6]

That catalog could be usefull as long as they are to scale. I could reference a known measured glass.

Do you know if there are any methods to cut or trim tempered glass? I know of a company with a good abrasive for removing scratches.

[aircooledboy]

QUOTE

Do you know if there are any methods to cut or trim tempered glass?

Sorry bud, no dice. Tempering makes glass harder by "squeezing" the crystal structure of the glass together as tight as it can be, using heat. Once glass is tempered, any damage to the structure of the glass anywhere causes the structure in the rest of the glass to fail like dominos. That's why tempered glass is a kind of "safety glass"; its very hard, but if you crack it, it disintigrates into thousands of tiny much less dangerous pieces. Even trying to polish a chip in the edge of a tempered piece of glass is risky. Cutting it or removing anything more than about .5mm is literally impossible. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/unsure.gif)
I'll see what I can find on the old catalogs.

[redshift]

are you sure it can't be cut with a water saw?


M

[jonwatts]

Yeah, I saw the Wonder Twins do it once. Or was it an ice saw? (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/wink.gif)