Battery cable Options

[thomasotten]

Could someone please make photos of an original connection at the battery for the positive cable? As the battery clamp portion is so often replaced with one from a local auto parts store, I am interested to see how the original was done, especially how the auxiliary wires are attached.

Many thanks

[JeffBowlsby]

Here is a good photo of the factory clamp:

[Artfrombama]

HERE!

[thomasotten]

Great thanks. Does anyone make a replica cable, where it comes into the connector from the side?

[Ron914]

Hers's mine . The cable is black but I wrapped it with red electrical tape .

[DennisV]

Great thanks. Does anyone make a replica cable, where it comes into the connector from the side?

I regret finding this thread, as now I've gone down the rabbit hole trying to source one of these.

Apparently these are called elbow battery terminals. Similar but not quite the same as flag terminals. I wasn't able to find any pre-made cables, but you can find the terminals to make your own, or have cables made to your specifications at custombatterycables.com. I think this would be the correct config:
56 in, 2/0 SGX Black, R elbow pos term , std 1/4 lug plated
$66.80

@McMark has a good post in the parts vault including the gauge and length of his original cable.

It is curious to me that the parts catalog only lists a single cable (914-611-031-00), but then says "Not for TYP 914-6". So what's the part for 914-6 then?

[IronHillRestorations]

The 914-6 battery cable was integrated in the 6 engine harness, which is why there isn’t a separate part number for a 914-6.

I’ve never been able to source the special bolt with the terminal block. At one time 914 Rubber made a reproduction that looked the part but it wasn’t functionally sound. I don’t know if they ever made a good one.

I make 6 engine and 6 conversion harnesses, and I have made them with and without a battery cable. I can make battery cables if you want one, but an off the shelf 6’ cable will work.

[TonyA]

So I see the correct stuff for the positive side, but what about the negative side? Should the cable be braided copper? Is it braided round copper or a band type like the ground strap at the transmission. Or is it a black cable.

[fixer34]

original as far as I know. May not be pretty, but it spins the -6 over just fine.

[JeffBowlsby]

So I see the correct stuff for the positive side, but what about the negative side? Should the cable be braided copper? Is it braided round copper or a band type like the ground strap at the transmission. Or is it a black cable.

An original battery ground cable is round, black cable, not braided.

[DennisV]

So I see the correct stuff for the positive side, but what about the negative side? Should the cable be braided copper? Is it braided round copper or a band type like the ground strap at the transmission. Or is it a black cable.

An original battery ground cable is round, black cable, not braided.

FWIW - The parts catalog lists two different battery ground strap part numbers.
914-611-903-10 -73
914-611-904-11 74-

Perhaps the early one is braided? The one I found on our 1970 914-6 looks like @fixer34 photos.

[TonyA]

So I see the correct stuff for the positive side, but what about the negative side? Should the cable be braided copper? Is it braided round copper or a band type like the ground strap at the transmission. Or is it a black cable.

An original battery ground cable is round, black cable, not braided.

Cool, that's what i used so i guess I didn't lose a tenth for the cable!

[wonkipop]

So I see the correct stuff for the positive side, but what about the negative side? Should the cable be braided copper? Is it braided round copper or a band type like the ground strap at the transmission. Or is it a black cable.

An original battery ground cable is round, black cable, not braided.

FWIW - The parts catalog lists two different battery ground strap part numbers.
914-611-903-10 -73
914-611-904-11 74-

Perhaps the early one is braided? The one I found on our 1970 914-6 looks like @fixer34 photos.

ok - both @JeffBowlsby and @DennisV are to be congratulated for getting my interest.
first Jeff for his insistence as always that things are a certain way full stop.
he makes a first rate research task master as you really got to find the EVIDENCE for Jeff to change his mind - he operates on evidence to date and stands his ground.

secondly for Dennis maintaining his curiousity and taking the physical evidence in front of his eyes seriously before dismissing it as being right or wrong.

here is what i can find.

1.
a photo of a 914/4 engine bay at the launch of the car at the Frankfurt Auto Show in late 1969. ground zero for battery cables? early car. very early you might say.



detail



the photo lacks resolution to be 100% certain, but it ain't a black round earth cable on this car. looks suspiciously like a braided strap?


2.

factory workshop manual. (from the engine volume).
bear in mind the factory workshop manual is published with the launch of the car.
its updated along the way with new pages and additions during the production run until the end of the car.
as such it contains many early photos of the cars in their original form which are not updated as the car changes.



detail



again a little blurry in the electronic copy of the factory manual i have.
but i'd say thats a braided strap ground cable?
it certainly ain't a black round cable.


3.
workshop factory manual again (from the fuel injection volume).



detail



you can see very clearly that its a braided strap in these images.
they very likely document the set up at the launch of the car and in the early years.


4.
PET parts diagram drawing.



no dispute what is being drawn there.
its a braided strap.
these PET drawings in the most part date from the launch of the car and its introduction.
rarely are the drawings themselves updated as parts change.
instead you have to go to the parts listing and there you can find the update sequence.
new drawings were only added along the way with the introduction of entirely new and entirely different parts. the one that immediately comes to mind is the pages covering the L jet EFI system for 74 in the USA and the dual carb 1.8 parts for ROW in 1974.


-------

my conclusion.
Jeff is correct. but correct for the 73, 74 and onwards model years of the car.
although going by the parts number sequence dennis lists the part might change in 74 not 73.

Dennis is correct in his view and speculation that early models (including the 6, not just the 4) could have had the braided strap. i would say not could but DID.

others with photos of their early cars with the strap are correct in their view that these straps are original set ups.

my guess is 70,71 and 72 cars had the strap. and maybe 73.
definitely the 70 models. and likely the 71 and 72.
need some photos of good original 73 cars, preferably historical photos to know for sure exactly when the change happens. is it 72/73 or is it 73/74?

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

its a round black wrapped earth cable in my 1974 1.8
i have no reason to doubt its not original.
in accordance with what is suggested in the PET as a different part number and as per Jeff's description of the earth cable.
but its a 74 and not an earlier car. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

[wonkipop]

got a little more curious,
dug around on Jeff's portfolio of exceptional cars on his marvelous website.

71. this looked like a very original unmolested car.
4712908458 braided strap.




73. a couple of very good condition and seemingly very original 73 MY cars.




later style ground cable - same as my 74.
have correct style clamp. likely original.

makes you wonder about the PET and when it gets the changeover right.
would have made sense to me this occurred with introduction of 2.0 in 73.
but nothing is particularly logical about 914 update chronology i have found when going through the L jets.

however. its certain i think that ground cable changed.
exactly when - some conflicting info?

[JeffBowlsby]

Thanks for the vote of confidence Michael, but I am a fallible person like each of us. I just right click on 914 photos alot.

I really need to organize my files better, but I do not have that much doumentation of the early cars 69-72. Based on what I do have I think you may be into something, braided ground straps for 70-72, black round ground cables for the 73-76 cars.

Need to point out that we should put little confidence on preproductoin cars, the factory manual graphics, and any other source that may indicate thigns that dd not make it into production, as we know of multiple discrepancies. The braided straps I found on the early cars look clunky, very much like aftermarket muscle car straps. The black cable ground straps have a je ne sais quoi-german characteristic to them, unlike the braided cables, especially the lug elements.

I did find this one black round cable in a pristine originalish '72 car, late VIN, 4722919661. Hard to know after so many years. All of the 73-76 cars in my referneces had the black round cables.

[wonkipop]

yeah jeff, thats a very good point re pre-production cars.

correct in that a lot of workshop manual images would in fact be pre production cars as the manual had to be prepared in advance of the cars release into the dealer network.

tricky to know for sure. you need genuine unmolested cars to try and assertain 100%.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

[wonkipop]

couple more examples of VW/Porsche use of flat strap earth cables pre 73.

what appears to be a very original 1971 914/6 M471 documented on the 914/6 GT website.




page from my 1974 owners manual.
looks like they never bothered to update the battery photo!
(granted as jeff questions that photo may originally be taken of a pre production car - or not.....?)




as to straps not looking very german - being more at home on an american muscle car. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) it seems as if the germans did not mind imitating bitchen camaros.
from the owners manual for a 1972 VW 411. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beer.gif)




i have no particular feeling that flat earth straps belong to any one particular domestic market or manufacturer. my childhood tends to tell me from memory that all battery earth cables were flat straps on cars during the 1960s and 1970s. i am pretty sure my 1972 VW type 3 had similar flat strap on the battery that hid under the back seat.
think the flat strap was a pretty standard thing on VWs right through the 50s 60s and into the 70s. no real reason 914s would not have followed that practice early on in production.

i have noticed on the mercs i have been cleaning up that date from 68 through to 72 that they have the high class german black round cable look. could be that VW and Porsche decided to finally up their game in 73 to catch up to the guys down the road in stuttgart standards?

[fixer34]

I'm wondering if the braided ground (earth to the UK and Aussie folks...) strap was an intentional design by an engineer until he/she was overruled by the bean counters. (why source 2 styles of cables when we can use the same black sheath cable for both..)

The braided strap is easily identified and that style was commonly used on electrical equipment and early computer systems in the 60's and 70's for 'ground'.

It is much more flexible than a sheathed cable so will stand up to vibration/movement without cracking/breaking. Why is the trans to body strap braided??

A braided strap will handle a higher current load before overheating compared to a sheathed cable.

Sometimes the 'old ways' are the 'best ways'....

[wonkipop]

I'm wondering if the braided ground (earth to the UK and Aussie folks...) strap was an intentional design by an engineer until he/she was overruled by the bean counters. (why source 2 styles of cables when we can use the same black sheath cable for both..)

The braided strap is easily identified and that style was commonly used on electrical equipment and early computer systems in the 60's and 70's for 'ground'.

It is much more flexible than a sheathed cable so will stand up to vibration/movement without cracking/breaking. Why is the trans to body strap braided??

A braided strap will handle a higher current load before overheating compared to a sheathed cable.

Sometimes the 'old ways' are the 'best ways'....

i had not thought of that angle. braided strap being more expensive. thats good. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

one other reason was common sense? ----- no confusion which was which.
only matters of course in a world that valued common sense, which probably came to an end sometime in the mid 1970s?

[TonyA]

My battery set up
with correct slotted hex head screw on positive side per Jeff Bowlsby
Hats off to Jeff for his guidance. minus.01 for battery dust post show (IMG:style_emoticons/default/cool_shades.gif)