Fred's 2374 -> 2258 Engine Build Thread Options

[friethmiller]

All this to say that your LN lifters may be WebCam ones.

Right! I will find out. Here are the cards from both cams. 104 lc on both.



FYI, my intake/exhaust valves are 44/38 and my exhaust is a full 1 5/8” tangerine header + muffler.

[friethmiller]

Trying to verify dimensions here. What is the standard case bore for the type 4 engine? AI says 2.559”. That seems too small. I’m measuring roughly 2.768 for the rear main on a case with a .02 line bore. Why am I off a decimal place? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/idea.gif)

[930cabman]

Trying to verify dimensions here. What is the standard case bore for the type 4 engine? AI says 2.559”. That seems too small. I’m measuring roughly 2.768 for the rear main on a case with a .02 line bore. Why am I off a decimal place? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/idea.gif)

I had my local machinist make up a "case gage", it's a couple thou over to allow for some clearance. I can check tomorrow and report back

[cgnj]

@friethmiller AI is not your friend. That is for a type 1 motor.

Type4 Saddle bore is 70mm or 2.756. 2.768 is correct

[friethmiller]

@friethmiller AI is not your friend. That is for a type 1 motor.

Type4 Saddle bore is 70mm or 2.756. 2.768 is correct

Excellent! Thank you. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

[friethmiller]

Ok, I've confirmed two things.

1. My EA block is too tight on #1, #2, and #3 saddles, as identified by my machinist.
2. [Thankfully] My W-block checks out at .020 line bore

Working from a STD bore of 2.756" + .020 bore = 2.776". I used the 2-3" micrometer to set 0 on my bore gauge for #1-#3 saddles. Adjusted tips to set zero on my 1-2" micrometer for the #4 saddle at 1.9685 + .020 bore = 1.9885.

Photos of my work to measure each saddle in multiple directions. Will proceed with verifying my brand new crank next before preparing for assembly. So far so good. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/aktion035.gif)





Thanks again to @cgnj for the specs!

[Montreal914]

Good news! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sunglasses.gif)
Nice metrology tools btw.

Did you get a chance to measure the bearings?

[Ninja]

Are bearings MORE available if you need .020 over on the OD?

I thought main bearings were a bit on the scarce side right now.

Nice work Fred!

[zig-n-zag]

Yes, nice tools you have there.

With the main bearing tunnel being tight, ask your machinist if doing a line

hone can be achieved to re-new the saddles back to standard bearing size?

[Jack Standz]

Are bearings MORE available if you need .020 over on the OD?

I thought main bearings were a bit on the scarce side right now.

Nice work Fred!

AApistons.com shows some .020 case/main bearings available, but not for std crankshaft size. So, depends on what his crankshaft measures at.

Maybe someone else will have the right size. We had a very hard time finding main bearings earlier this year for one motor. The other motor we fortunately already had the proper bearings.

[friethmiller]

With the main bearing tunnel being tight, ask your machinist if doing a line
hone can be achieved to re-new the saddles back to standard bearing size?

Yes, after I build this motor with my W block, I will likely send the EA block out to be checked and line bored correctly to .020. After waiting for so long for machine work on this build I want, at a minimum, a short block sitting in my garage ready to go. The EA motor will be my back-up (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[friethmiller]

Good news! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sunglasses.gif)
Did you get a chance to measure the bearings?

Are bearings MORE available if you need .020 over on the OD?

AApistons.com shows some .020 case/main bearings available, but not for std crankshaft size. So, depends on what his crankshaft measures at.

I just ordered another set of .020/std bearings last night from LN, just in case. The crank is brand new so it should measure as STD. @Montreal914 , I started looking at the two sets of bearing I do have on-hand. One looks like std/std, which is unobtainium at them moment. The other set is .020/std, however, the split bearing in the box doesn't match the others. These bearings sat in a box at the machine shop and I don't trust what might have happened to them. The Mahle line-bore (.020) bearings are sold out on AA. The do have some Silverline but not at .020/std as @Jack Standz mentioned. So, @Ninja - I think you can still find other non std/std but even those are a bit scarce at the moment.

[Ninja]

I have another question...

How do the main bearing journals get TIGHT????

All the damage I've ever seen INCREASES the bores.

In a normal engine the parting surfaces (both block and cap) get a couple of thousands machined off to reduce the diameter and then a line bore is done back to standard size.

Exception is a "cracked" cap (GM LS series rods) where bore is increased and oversized OD bearings are used.

Never seen/heard about undersized main journals until your thread...

[friethmiller]

I have another question...

How do the main bearing journals get TIGHT????

All the damage I've ever seen INCREASES the bores.

In a normal engine the parting surfaces (both block and cap) get a couple of thousands machined off to reduce the diameter and then a line bore is done back to standard size.

Exception is a "cracked" cap (GM LS series rods) where bore is increased and oversized OD bearings are used.

Never seen/heard about undersized main journals until your thread...

Improper prior machine work, is my guess. The place that did it is no longer in business.

[Nogoodwithusernames]

Fred,
If mains are tight, I would see if the shop can machine them just to STD. No need to go overbore, especially for a "down the road" type project.

[friethmiller]

Ok, three things to report back on. I talked with the machinist and called Web Cams today.

1) The Machinist said he offsets the oil grooves to better cool the bottom of the piston and still splash the wrist pin.

2) He also measured that the saddles #1-#3 on my EA case were all tight. He said he measured between .002 and .0027. This is in line with what I'm measuring. So that gives us a bore between 2.7733" - 2.774". Thats shy of the expected 2.776" for a .020 line bore. Note: #4 (smaller) saddle is spot on. This is a [previous] machining error in my book. Like I said earlier, I'll send this case to get bored to the correct dimensions.

3) The lady at Web Cam said that LN Engineering buys their cams for their builds but they don't buy Web Cam's lifters. She said that both lifters likely derived from the same scat origins and that I'm safe to proceed with using the LN lifters.

[friethmiller]

Please help play.... read the micrometer! This is a 2-3" micrometer. I get 2.776. I hope I'm wrong.

[cgnj]

I'm watching now because you lost me.

[Ninja]

Please help play.... read the micrometer! This is a 2-3" micrometer. I get 2.776. I hope I'm wrong.

Yep!
I'm seeing 2.776 too!

I'm ALSO seeing a cheap mic. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ninja.gif)

Do you have a 2" and 3" standards?
I'd want those to zero that mic.

One of my favorite mics is a Starrett 1.5-2.5 mic that can be zeroed at the center point with a 2" standard.

Cheap mics can work KICK-ASS but a known accurate standard is a must...

The method you were using the bore gauge (setting zero to your required measurement) is the ONLY way to go in my book.
Hats off to you Sir!
Many so called "machinist" don't do it that way.

Using one tool to determine your clearance is far more accurate than using two

[friethmiller]

Do you have a 2" and 3" standards?
I'd want those to zero that mic.

I'm thinking this must be my problem. I swear this W case spec'd out the other day but when I rechecked it yesterday it was .002 - .003 too large. I have a 2" inch standard. let me verify/reset the mic.