Can I remove the oil cooler without removing the engine?, EDIT... YES, IT CAN BE DONE IN 3+ HOURS TOTAL Options

[flxzcat]

Guys,

I have a newly rebuilt 2.4-T4 that includes a new Chinese T4 oil cooler. Today it appears to have cracked or O-ring split or spit out or some other problem as oil is dripping from it.

Question, can I remove the oil cooler without removing the engine? I remember the screws and studs were pretty long, so maybe this isn't possible.

Due to extra width of 2.4, the tin is easily damaged when installing or removing the engine. I have full facilities here including a large transmission jack that tilts in all directions And I have made a special support platform for the engine but still, its a PITA that takes me hours to remove or install. The car, engine bay, everything is like near perfect, so don't want to create any scratches, dings, etc.. if possible.

Going forward, where should I get a new cooler if needed? Not really worried about price at this point.

Thanks in advance,
Paul
EDIT, WAS ABLE TO REMOVE AND REPLACE COOLER WITH ENGINE IN..3 HOURS TOTAL

[Superhawk996]

Way easier if you drop the engine.

[Jack Standz]

Have heard that it can be done, have t done it though. You take a small socket, universal joint or combination of u joint and short extensions to take the three nuts holding the cooler on. Also need to remove the bracket/fastener holding the cooler to the fan case, might have to bend the bracket some.

Then you can use long needle nose pliers or something to unscrew the studs holding the cooler on (with the 3 fasteners undone, you can slide, but not remove the cooler as the studs hold it in). If that doesn’t work, you can saw off the studs between the cooler and case, but you can I’ll have to replace the studs of course.

Best wishes with the fix and let us know if you’re successful.

If you’re only replacing the seals, it’s not necessary to completely remove the cooler and is doable without removing the oil cooler studs. This we have done, but not an easy or fun job.

[brant]

You can

You have to saw all and replace the cooler mounting bolts

Easier and quicker to drop the motor
Plus new seals can be installed correctly in an easier manner

[mgphoto]

Done it several times to replace leaking seals.
You need to double nut the studs to remove them, but you have to remove the nuts before you can get the cooler out.
Time consuming you must use small open end wrenches, and be extremely careful when replacing the studs.
You don’t have to remove the cooler to replace the seals.
FYI all of the type iv oil coolers are made in China no matter whose name is on the box.

[flxzcat]

Update

Cleaned up the oil mess and started the car on the lift. Clearly the oil is coming from the rear most first tube. A drip every10 seconds. It is not the O-rings but the tube closest to the O-rings. The O-rings are dry.

I will replace cooler with another crappy import. The heavy duty EMPI "Super Kooler" is not in stock anywhere unfortunately. I called EMPI and they don't know when they will be. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/hissyfit.gif)

Going through previous post regarding leaks, I did notice that my car is missing the separate steel cooler mounting brackets! which were not on the previous engine when I rebuilt it 4 months ago, so I didn't realize they were missing as Ive never rebuilt an air-cooled engine before. This may be the cause of the problem.

Going forward, after reading many earlier post, I will attack this with the engine in the car. If that doesn't work out, I'll pull the engine.

There is no "while I'm in there" as everything but the block, cylinders and pistons are new <1000 mi.

Now I'm off to look for the missing brackets.

[Superhawk996]

Not to nitpick but it shouldn’t be taking hours to remove an engine especially given the resources you have at your disposal.

The whole shebang drops as a unit. Engine, trans, heat exchangers & muffler.

Without the oil cooler support bracket it’s no wonder you’ve leaking.

Just a whole lot easier to do it right than mess around trying to do this in car. Whole lot of combined experience that you’re ignoring.

[brant]

Not to nitpick but it shouldn’t be taking hours to remove an engine especially given the resources you have at your disposal.

The whole shebang drops as a unit. Engine, trans, heat exchangers & muffler.

Without the oil cooler support bracket it’s no wonder you’ve leaking.

Just a whole lot easier to do it right than mess around trying to do this in car. Whole lot of combined experience that you’re ignoring.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif)

[Literati914]

To do this with the engine out - does one then have to pull the tin, fan and the fan shroud? -asking for a friend (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)

[VaccaRabite]

Not to nitpick but it shouldn’t be taking hours to remove an engine especially given the resources you have at your disposal.

The whole shebang drops as a unit. Engine, trans, heat exchangers & muffler.

Without the oil cooler support bracket it’s no wonder you’ve leaking.

Just a whole lot easier to do it right than mess around trying to do this in car. Whole lot of combined experience that you’re ignoring.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif)

Though I've not found a way to get the engine out from the axles without removing the heat exchangers.

That said, in this case it may be possible to just pivot the engine down far enough to get the doghouse off. I've done that before when I needed to pull an oil pump. But really its faster to just pull the entire engine.
Zach

[mepstein]

To do this with the engine out - does one then have to pull the tin, fan and the fan shroud? -asking for a friend (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)

No. I did it years ago. It might have been one piece of tin or not. Very easy with the engine out. A little smear of grease to hold the seals in the right place.

[Superhawk996]

Though I've not found a way to get the engine out from the axles without removing the heat exchangers.

I’m unclear on what’s hanging you up. Axles are behind the engine and they are already above the heat exchangers and can be manipulated up over the trans. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

[dr914@autoatlanta.com]

no

Guys,

I have a newly rebuilt 2.4-T4 that includes a new Chinese T4 oil cooler. Today it appears to have cracked or O-ring split or spit out or some other problem as oil is dripping from it.

Question, can I remove the oil cooler without removing the engine? I remember the screws and studs were pretty long, so maybe this isn't possible.

Due to extra width of 2.4, the tin is easily damaged when installing or removing the engine. I have full facilities here including a large transmission jack that tilts in all directions And I have made a special support platform for the engine but still, its a PITA that takes me hours to remove or install. The car, engine bay, everything is like near perfect, so don't want to create any scratches, dings, etc.. if possible.

Going forward, where should I get a new cooler if needed? Not really worried about price at this point.

Thanks in advance,
Paul

[flxzcat]

OK Girlz,

It took 92 minutes in total to remove the cooler with the engine in. First time job @70 yrs old.

I didn't want to remove the engine because my tin is wider than the space between suspension bolts. To me, this was far less stressful than pulling the engine.

Ive only taken the engine out once, to rebuild, so I'm not the seasoned expert some of you appear to be, that can whip one out in half an hour. I don't use power tools and developed this habit when working on 50's and 60's Masers, Ferraris and Lambos 50 years ago when damaged old metric bolts were unobtanium.

[Jack Standz]

Congratulations! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/piratenanner.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/piratenanner.gif)

Can you see where the cooler was leaking? Photo please, would like to see how it failed with the missing bracket.

Since we are planing to add a crank trigger wheel for an MS3 fuel injection installation at some point, how difficult was it to remove the fan housing/fan hub with the motor still in the car?

[BillC]

Since we are planing to add a crank trigger wheel for an MS3 fuel injection installation at some point, how difficult was it to remove the fan housing/fan hub with the motor still in the car?

Off-topic reply: @Jack Standz Unless you really want to install that crank trigger, contact PMB Performance -- they sell a distributor that incorporates a cam sensor. Works great with the MS3 system I bought from them.

[porschetub]

Not to nitpick but it shouldn’t be taking hours to remove an engine especially given the resources you have at your disposal.

The whole shebang drops as a unit. Engine, trans, heat exchangers & muffler.

Without the oil cooler support bracket it’s no wonder you’ve leaking.

Just a whole lot easier to do it right than mess around trying to do this in car. Whole lot of combined experience that you’re ignoring.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) also ,that cooler support bracket is a critical component ,I would suggest the new seals may have let go with oil pressure as the cooler wasn't fully supported enough.
These aftermarket coolers are ok but appears the aren't as good original ?, there have been fitment issues apparently.
You have made your own choice on this so take your time to get it right, good luck ,cheers

[Jack Standz]

Since we are planing to add a crank trigger wheel for an MS3 fuel injection installation at some point, how difficult was it to remove the fan housing/fan hub with the motor still in the car?

Off-topic reply: @Jack Standz Unless you really want to install that crank trigger, contact PMB Performance -- they sell a distributor that incorporates a cam sensor. Works great with the MS3 system I bought from them.

Another off-topic reply: yeah, really want to install the crank trigger system. One of the reasons to change to the crank trigger is to avoid having to deal with distributor caps and rotors. Installing a modern fuel injection system but still keeping a distributor seems like only a half step forward, not a full step forward. But, thanks for the suggestion.

[flxzcat]

[/quote]
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) also ,that cooler support bracket is a critical component ,I would suggest the new seals may have let go with oil pressure as the cooler wasn't fully supported enough.
These aftermarket coolers are ok but appears the aren't as good original ?, there have been fitment issues apparently.
You have made your own choice on this so take your time to get it right, good luck ,cheers
[/quote]

SEALS WERE NOT LEAKING IT WAS A CRACK (sometimes I gotta wonder if people read the whole thread or just the last post?)

[bkrantz]

Not to nitpick but it shouldn’t be taking hours to remove an engine especially given the resources you have at your disposal.

The whole shebang drops as a unit. Engine, trans, heat exchangers & muffler.

Without the oil cooler support bracket it’s no wonder you’ve leaking.

Just a whole lot easier to do it right than mess around trying to do this in car. Whole lot of combined experience that you’re ignoring.

And for reference, over on the VW side of the family, people can drop the engine and transaxle out of a Beetle in less than a minute.