Low emi/noise ignition bits Options

[emerygt350]

I am having some suspected electromagnetic interference issues. My car produces a ton of it. So bad in fact, the last time I took it to the dyno the machines computer wouldn't even work. Now I suspect I am getting voltage spikes to my new 123 causing it to flake out. I am getting electromagnetic field strengths of over 2000 v/m in my engine compartment. Is that normal? Is there anything I can do? Better spark plug wires?

[dtmehall]

these work well for me

Magnecor Spark Plug Wires

https://lnengineering.com/products/aircoole...ark-plug-wires/

[porschetub]

Clewett Engineering have two brands, their own and Magnecor ,seem to cover the issues the OP has .
Running Clewett leads on my 2.2 six engine and been very happy with them .
Cheers.

[emerygt350]

Those look good. When I get a moment I am going to grab some.

[TRP]

I have the Magnacore wires on my car, they are a bit long, but seem to work. Your comment about your 123 being spotty makes me wonder if we are having similar issues. What are you experiencing? My 123 distributor getting a bit wonky while under power, mostly above 2500 rpms. The car idles fine and revs clean to 3200 in neutral; the car will surge and pop while under power. I thought this was lean popping and missing/surging due to something with the AFM (1.8) or an imbalance because of the GoWesty throttlebody. I reverted back to stock throttlebody, same issue. When I swapped back to the OEM distributor, the car drives well.

I sent the 123 back to get inspected. They swapped out a board and sent it back. It is waiting at home for me to reinstall it when I return from this business trip.

Im now wondering if it's emi or something. Do you have resistor plugs? Are your distributor power wires isolated from the plug wires / other electronic signals?

[emerygt350]

I am currently traveling so I can't write much but my symptoms resemble the troubleshooting description of transient voltage surges on the 123 site. Ed replaced the board twice and I still have the drop outs but the only happen after the car has been running for a little while and the get worse and worse as it runs longer. I pulled the voltage regulator and it made no difference. I do not have good wires and I am running the ngk coppers. I was thinking about trying to get a tvs device. I will be away for a week so I can't do more trouble shooting. Ed told me to describe my issues and troubleshooting to the contacts on the main website for 123. My symptoms disappear when I put the original dizzy back on.

[worn]

I am having some suspected electromagnetic interference issues. My car produces a ton of it. So bad in fact, the last time I took it to the dyno the machines computer wouldn't even work. Now I suspect I am getting voltage spikes to my new 123 causing it to flake out. I am getting electromagnetic field strengths of over 2000 v/m in my engine compartment. Is that normal? Is there anything I can do? Better spark plug wires?

Can you explain a bit more what might be happening? Sounds like transient voltage spikes are creating fields that are serious enough to take down a laptop. Cool, but how do you think it works?

[dtmehall]

a miss firing ignition system can produce a lot of EMI

can you elaborate of the 'now' portion of you description

[emerygt350]

a miss firing ignition system can produce a lot of EMI

can you elaborate of the 'now' portion of you description

Do you mean how it is behaving now? I can drive the car and it runs great for about 10 minutes from a cold start in the morning. After that it starts to drop out. Random lack of spark getting worse and worse till it is nearly impossible to drive. Let the car sit for 5 minutes and you will get maybe 60 seconds of awesome running before it starts missing again.

Here is what 123 has on the site about tvs and the 123.


I pulled the regulator and no change. I am tempted to pull the alternator belt and try it without it down there spinning. Sorry bout all the typos, in Chicago on my phone at the moment.

[TRP]

This sounds similar to what I am experiencing with my car. It will idle great, no issues. It's only after I warm it up and start to drive it does the start to lurch and surge/misbehave.

I sent my 123 distributor in for a new board and hope to get it back this week. I am also traveling for work and will not be able to start debugging this until this coming weekend. My battery is a brand new Optima Red Top and my alternator is a BOSCH unit that I had rebuilt from a local shop in California. I am running a dedicated ground strap from the alternator case to the motor case to avoid any issues that may have come from a bad ground.

I will be following your progress/debugging closely. I will also share anything that I find on my end.

Best of luck and safe travels.

Ted

[emerygt350]

I too have an alternator I sent out for a rebuild and a brand new red optima. Hmmm.....

I assume you sent your 123 to Ed?

[JamesM]

Just replacing spark plug wires period might help. When I have encountered it on peoples cars it has always been due to failing wires.

[emerygt350]

Just replacing spark plug wires period might help. When I have encountered it on peoples cars it has always been due to failing wires.

Mine are brand new, but cheapo autozone wires. Gonna try the magnecors. What about plugs? Do people trying to reduce the emi stick with the ngks?

[emerygt350]

I am going to try and add a transient voltage suppressor to the positive leading to the 123. They arrive Thursday. I will let you know how it goes. A P6KE15CA

[JamesM]

Just replacing spark plug wires period might help. When I have encountered it on peoples cars it has always been due to failing wires.

Mine are brand new, but cheapo autozone wires. Gonna try the magnecors. What about plugs? Do people trying to reduce the emi stick with the ngks?

What plugs are you running?

As long as they are resistor plugs and gapped correctly you should be good.

given you are running AutoZone wires I have to ask, do they have the proper threaded connectors or are they the American style? Inexpensive wires are not necessairly an issue, I run the "STI" brand wires just fine, but they do have the proper plug connectors.

Arcing causes EMI so if you have something like a loose fitting connector on a high voltage lead it becomes a problem.

Curious how have you determined the issue you are experiencing is EMI? On my Megasquirt based systems it is pretty easy to see in datalogs but d-jet is always a bit of a black box, and there are LOTS of things that can cause d-jet to act up.

[emerygt350]

Just replacing spark plug wires period might help. When I have encountered it on peoples cars it has always been due to failing wires.

Mine are brand new, but cheapo autozone wires. Gonna try the magnecors. What about plugs? Do people trying to reduce the emi stick with the ngks?

What plugs are you running?

As long as they are resistor plugs and gapped correctly you should be good.

given you are running AutoZone wires I have to ask, do they have the proper threaded connectors or are they the American style? Inexpensive wires are not necessairly an issue, I run the "STI" brand wires just fine, but they do have the proper plug connectors.

Arcing causes EMI so if you have something like a loose fitting connector on a high voltage lead it becomes a problem.

Curious how have you determined the issue you are experiencing is EMI? On my Megasquirt based systems it is pretty easy to see in datalogs but d-jet is always a bit of a black box, and there are LOTS of things that can cause d-jet to act up.

I was thinking EMI might be the issue but the most parsimonious explanation is transient voltage spikes from the alternator. I had mine rebuilt about a year and half ago and thinking back, that could line up with the emergence of symptoms.

When I get back to NY I am going to first test the alternator (get it to act up and then remove the belt). Then work with isolating that positive to the dizzy.

I have these on the car at the moment:
https://www.autozone.com/p/duralast-spark-p...-set-9839/77542

but I also have a nicer set I got from autoatlanta that did not make a difference in the symptoms.

[JamesM]

I was thinking EMI might be the issue but the most parsimonious explanation is transient voltage spikes from the alternator. I had mine rebuilt about a year and half ago and thinking back, that could line up with the emergence of symptoms.

When I get back to NY I am going to first test the alternator (get it to act up and then remove the belt). Then work with isolating that positive to the dizzy.

I have these on the car at the moment:
https://www.autozone.com/p/duralast-spark-p...-set-9839/77542

but I also have a nicer set I got from autoatlanta that did not make a difference in the symptoms.

Funny enough alternator voltage spikes were something else I have encountered, and was able to quickly diagnose on a Megasquirt car. Having all input parameters dataloged at millisecond level resolution is handy for quick troubleshooting. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)
I would start with a new solid state voltage regulator and ensure the wiring/connectors from the alternator to the regulator are good. That was all it took on the one I had that was spiking. Cheaper and easier than swapping the alternator too.

[emerygt350]

I was thinking EMI might be the issue but the most parsimonious explanation is transient voltage spikes from the alternator. I had mine rebuilt about a year and half ago and thinking back, that could line up with the emergence of symptoms.

When I get back to NY I am going to first test the alternator (get it to act up and then remove the belt). Then work with isolating that positive to the dizzy.

I have these on the car at the moment:
https://www.autozone.com/p/duralast-spark-p...-set-9839/77542

but I also have a nicer set I got from autoatlanta that did not make a difference in the symptoms.

Funny enough alternator voltage spikes were something else I have encountered, and was able to quickly diagnose on a Megasquirt car. Having all input parameters dataloged at millisecond level resolution is handy for quick troubleshooting. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)
I would start with a new solid state voltage regulator and ensure the wiring/connectors from the alternator to the regulator are good. That was all it took on the one I had that was spiking. Cheaper and easier than swapping the alternator too.

That was my first move, I actually went the other way since I already have a solid state regulator. Popped on an old hella points based regulator to see if it would change anything. nope, just took longer for the battery to reach full charge. After it started acting up I tried switching back and forth and just leaving it off altogether. no change.

[JamesM]

Funny enough alternator voltage spikes were something else I have encountered, and was able to quickly diagnose on a Megasquirt car. Having all input parameters dataloged at millisecond level resolution is handy for quick troubleshooting. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)
I would start with a new solid state voltage regulator and ensure the wiring/connectors from the alternator to the regulator are good. That was all it took on the one I had that was spiking. Cheaper and easier than swapping the alternator too.

That was my first move, I actually went the other way since I already have a solid state regulator. Popped on an old hella points based regulator to see if it would change anything. nope, just took longer for the battery to reach full charge. After it started acting up I tried switching back and forth and just leaving it off altogether. no change.

Troubleshooting blind/without data is always a hoot.

Have you been able to measure voltage spikes anywhere? If not we could probably rule out out voltage issues, but maybe not alternator issues (internal arcing? IDK just guessing at this point)


Read back through the entire thread, looking to throw out any suspected issues and just focus on symptoms and what has/hasn't already been tested.

"Random lack of spark getting worse and worse till it is nearly impossible to drive. Let the car sit for 5 minutes and you will get maybe 60 seconds of awesome running before it starts missing again."

"I can drive the car and it runs great for about 10 minutes from a cold start in the morning. After that it starts to drop out."


Hate to assume, but assuming you have confirmed it is indeed the spark cutting out and not an injection issue causing a missfire? If so we can look specifically at the ignition system.

Things I would check:

Starting with the easiest, though I don't suspect it to be the problem, its quick and should rule it out.

1. When the problem is occurring are you still getting 12v to the coil? The relay board is notorious for causing intermittent problems related to heat/time running and while I have never personally seen it impact the circuit to the coil it is the easiest thing to rule out. Ignition switch itself could also impact this.

2. Possible that the coil itself is failing.

3. Hardest to test/verify - Defective 123dizzy

[emerygt350]

Yeah, the 123 gives me v and amps at the coil. I also ran a direct relay removing the ignition system (key, fuse box wiring, etc) from the coil. At the coil it's always about 13.3 and 3 amps when running direct. Made no difference.

It isn't gassy though it does pop a bit at high rpm when it is misbehaving which implies that it is also not telling the injectors to fire.

I removed the cht from the injection system and just put a 100ohm resistor in line to remove the 'something fi related when warmed up', no change in behavior.

Brand new functional blue Bosch coil (runs great with the old diZzy) and tried a new pertronix I have as well.

Ed at 123usa has gone over the dizzy twice. Replaced the board etc. I am now working with the main company and they have a couple of tips for me when I get back to NY. They are pretty sure it is transient voltage spikes as well but we won't know till I pop the belt off.