Gas prices are too high! What about E85?, Anyone have experience running E85 in their 914? Options

[Jack Standz]

As you all know, gas (and diesel) prices are on a rampage and are the highest we personally have ever seen them. Maybe using E85 is a viable work around?

Take a look at the embedded table showing current gas prices and how they've skyrocketed the last year in the Bay Area (probably similar experiences elsewhere). Then last night we went to the store and E85 was selling at only $3.39.

Anyone have experience running E85 in their 914? A simple jet change on a carbureted 914? Just an adjustment to the tune in a FI 914? Fuel pump change needed? (We already have alcohol ready fuel lines)

Having never run E85, looking for thoughts from the experts here. TIA

[Superhawk996]

D-jet forggeda’ bout’ it.

With a mega squirt it’s possible but you’re going to need a flex fuel sensor to know what you’re running as E85 ethanol content is pretty variable depending on Regionality and seasonal mix. Ethanol content varies the stoichiometric mix and would need to run closed loop.

I suppose if you could get ethanol race fuel with a consistent ethanol content you could tune a carb for it but where you going to get that fuel and what would be the point for a street vehicle.

[GregAmy]

As noted above, even with MS you'd have to do a totally different tune and a sensor to swap to the other tune.

Unless you're driving your 914 15,000 miles per year it really doesn't make economical sense (the cost of adding a sensor and the dyno time to tune it could buy a lot of fuel...)

[Osnabruck914]

Frankly, owning and operating a 914 is a luxury to begin with. Spending a little more on the proper fuel (non-ethanol in my case) is just part of owning that luxury. If money was a concern to feed the car with the right fuel, I would ditch the luxury. My opinion and nothing else implied.

Osnbruck914

[Chris914n6]

NO. Not even a viable option. E10 already causes problems.

[dtmehall]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) with Osnabruck914

[bkrantz]

The cool thing is that even at past lows gas prices in California were higher than the current US average.

[porschetub]

NO. Not even a viable option. E10 already causes problems.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) , learned my lesson the hard way ,we don't have non ethanol in my country so if you are storing a car or infrequent use be prepared for issues unless you drain this all out.
Oh and fuel hose will suffer ,only use Gates barricade now and so far so good, other so called ethanol rated didn't cut it.
Cheers.

[brant]

bad idea.
would require a modern tunable injection.
short shelf life, less MPG

good for a tuned modern turbo motor

[Jack Standz]

Let’s try this: Anyone have any actual experience running E85 in their 914 or any other carbureted vehicle? TIA for your thoughts.

Based on the above responses and a little more research, it seems the alcohol content in E85 can vary from around 50% to 85%, depending on the season. That does seem to be a difficult issue if you’re running carbs where changing jets on the fly is much more a problem than having a sensor that can tell you the % for a FI system.

So, in real life use, can E85 work for running carbs on the street?

[JamesM]

Then last night we went to the store and E85 was selling at only $3.39.

I just got back from Austin Texas, Regular there was only 3.49 (vs ~5/gal here in Utah)

This is the exact reason I have been driving my 914 more, with the current Megasquirt setup/tune I have on it I get close to 40mpg vs the ~20mpg I get out of my BMW.

Never known anyone that has run E85 in an NA car, only turbo guys as it allows them to run more boost.

I would be curious to know what impacts it has on a NA air cooled car as far as heads temps, mileage, power, etc.

Not sure there would be much savings either way though, E85 takes 30-40% more volume of fuel than gas for the same air charge to achieve stoichiometric and contains less energy per volume so what you save in per gallon costs you may wind up loosing anyways as you have to burn a lot more of it for the same results.

[73-914]

You will also need bigger fuel lines. Your fuel mileage will be less

[Superhawk996]

So, in real life use, can E85 work for running carbs on the street?

Yes. No.

You can convert a gasoline engine to run on wood. Yes wood. Lookup wood gasification if you’re bored.

Early tractors ran dual fuel. Had to start on gasoline then switched to Kerosene when the engine became hot enough. Dual fuel tractors had to run lower compression ratio to make this possible.

The first Mercedes ran on Ligroin.

You can run on almost anything. But the question is at what price both in terms of loss of performance, cost to convert, and cost to operate.

I’m no fan of battery conversions but that would make more economic sense than E85.

[GregAmy]

The first Mercedes ran on Ligroin.

I learned a new word today...

[mgp4591]

The first Mercedes ran on Ligroin.

I learned a new word today...

Sounds painful, doesn't it?

[eric914]

Don's forget that Ethanol has 33% less energy per gallon that pure gas. If your E85 is 85% ethanol (it could be less) the equivalent price compared to pure gas would be $4.34

I have a friend who has tuned his Ford F150 Raptor to run on E50. He uses a test kit to measure the actual ethanol content of E85 when he fills up and then adjusts the % of gas he adds to end up at a 50% Ethanol / Gas mix.

[Jack Standz]

So, in real life use, can E85 work for running carbs on the street?

Yes. No.

You can convert a gasoline engine to run on wood. Yes wood. Lookup wood gasification if you’re bored.

Early tractors ran dual fuel. Had to start on gasoline then switched to Kerosene when the engine became hot enough. Dual fuel tractors had to run lower compression ratio to make this possible.

The first Mercedes ran on Ligroin.

You can run on almost anything. But the question is at what price both in terms of loss of performance, cost to convert, and cost to operate.

I’m no fan of battery conversions but that would make more economic sense than E85.

Well, it wasn’t a conversion, but Porsche had an electric car a very long time ago:

The first electric Porsche was the Egger-Lohner C.2 Phaeton, designed by Ferdinand Porsche in 1898 and later called the "P1."

[StarBear]

Frankly, owning and operating a 914 is a luxury to begin with. Spending a little more on the proper fuel (non-ethanol in my case) is just part of owning that luxury. If money was a concern to feed the car with the right fuel, I would ditch the luxury. My opinion and nothing else implied.

Osnbruck914

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif)

[wonkipop]

to put things in a context.

during the 73/74 oil crisis (embargo by opec) the price of reg gasoline in the united states rose to 60c per us gallon. i believe it roughly doubled in cost over where it had been prior to the out break of the october war in the middle east. and it was rationed.

thats $4.50 usd per us gallon in todays dollars.

its pretty much where it was during that first oil crisis?

interestingly that is the context for the 914 during the time of its later years of production------and it made perfect sense then as a small engined sports car boasting high levels of fuel economy (for its time). was even marketed that way from 74 MY on.

given that todays cars are far far more efficient, we are all still better off than then as todays cars go probably twice as far on a gallon. allowing the luxury of weekend drives in our anachronisms.

----

i've always thought of my 1.8 as a fuel crisis car so i'm not sweating the price of fuel at present. it hurts but it ain't killing me to put some gas in the tank and take it out for a squirt. even down here in north antarctica where i am sure it costs even more than it does stateside. and i would never consider running sugar cane juice through its plumbing. value the injectors way too much. rare commodity these days.

[bkrantz]

So, in real life use, can E85 work for running carbs on the street?

Yes. No.

You can convert a gasoline engine to run on wood. Yes wood. Lookup wood gasification if you’re bored.

Early tractors ran dual fuel. Had to start on gasoline then switched to Kerosene when the engine became hot enough. Dual fuel tractors had to run lower compression ratio to make this possible.

The first Mercedes ran on Ligroin.

You can run on almost anything. But the question is at what price both in terms of loss of performance, cost to convert, and cost to operate.

I’m no fan of battery conversions but that would make more economic sense than E85.

Well, it wasn’t a conversion, but Porsche had an electric car a very long time ago:

The first electric Porsche was the Egger-Lohner C.2 Phaeton, designed by Ferdinand Porsche in 1898 and later called the "P1."

The front does look a little bit Cybertruck.