I'm depressed, 2 hours of dyno time for nut'n....., Ignition cr@pped out, wouldn't restart:( Options

[Mueller]

What a waste of a day off.... (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/headbang.gif)

I knew it was going to be one of those days when my laptop wouldn't communicate with the Link ECU, luckly I brought a back up unit that I normally use, it's just that the 1st laptop I had was way, way faster...(normally)

Mark D (McMark) showed up and helped stomp on the gas while I played with the laptop, we started @ 1000rpm and went up in 500rpm increments...strange feeling with the pedal @ WOT in 4th gear and the motor would not go over the set load...

I kept hearing a misfire and then all of a sudden under load it got real bad, we changed out the distributor cap since the original one had some viewing holes cut into it for timing....it just got worse...then I noticed the air intake elbow was a little loose so I fixed that...I was hopeing that was it...nope still really bad misfires coming out of the exhaust....finally I load a new MAP setting and the car seemed to be idling better, then all of a sudden the car dies..."hey Mark, did you turn it off???"

"nope"

"oh $hit"

I get out the voltmeter, I have voltage like I should, no apperant spark....

So, it's one of the following I think (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/wacko.gif)
a bad MSD box, a bad optical sensor in the dizzy or the Link is messed up....I have a check list of items to go over before sending the Link back for testing....

I think i want to replace the optical sensor within the dizzy with a hall effect unit, any leads or ideas?

McMark dyno's his car, I'll let him tell you about it...he had better luck than me

[Dr. Roger]

Dang Mike,

very sorry to gear that BS happening.

If you plan for a weekend I might be able to help out in the future.

Cool that Mark could be there fo rmoral support if nothing else. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/wink.gif) (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif)


Hey, you know what's up better than most. It'll get done. No problemo'. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/smilie_pokal.gif)

[lapuwali]

Couldn't make it today, sorry. Way too much work.

I think you should just use the Mallory Unilite straight for ignition, and remove the CDI box completely. Do fuel only, and get the car running really well. THEN, use an 009 or something like that (I have several if you want one), gut it, lock it, and do ignition experiments with that AFTER you get the fuel system working 100%. You can swap the Mallory in and out as needed until the tunable ignition works and is reliable. CDI boxes are just another thing to break, and unless you NEED it (which you shouldn't for a near stock 1.8), is just going to be an unnecessary distraction.

[McMark]

Yeah, it was a major bummer for Mike. We started to Jerry Rig something and the dyno operator told us we'd be better off just leaving it and coming back. He was right. Better to fix it and come back later than to burn time fixing it in the room. I hope it wasn't rude of me, but I jumped my car on the machine and bought up the extra hour. I was able to do some idle tuning and get the full throttle tuned in. It was nice, but frustrating not to be able to tune the full table. He said it would take two more hours to do that. Next time, I don't think I'll be there. I'll just drop the car off and let them do it. But I am making 86 hp and I think 99 ft/lbs. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/boldblue.gif)

Of course, I had my share of bad news as well. Right now my car is sitting on the side of the road just outside of Napa. I did a little side of the road trouble shooting and the fuel pump is blowing the fuse. So I'll tow it home and check that out.

It's been a real good news/bad news day. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/wacko.gif)

[bug man nrg]

Some time's this isnot what we need but it is a good thing that you found the problem on the dyno and not on the street any time spent on a dyno is good time .When you look back you will not do the same thing twice (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/rolleyes.gif) on your next trip to the dyno you will have your car set right for the day (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/piratenanner.gif)

[fiid]

bizarrely enough - I could really use some dyno time right now! Bummer that it didn't go well. Sorry to hear that. Sorry to hear about Mark's car too.

[Mueller]

we have a "runner"......problem fixed...sorta...

broken electrode on the rotor......

The original electrode was too skinny and giving me problems with spark scatter, so I rigged up a new one. It had no issues with the original distributor cap...

Once we installed the new cap, the car really ran terrible until it just wouldn't run any more....I "think" this could be the reason (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/unsure.gif)

No new rotor, I fixed the broken one to at least get the car off the trailer and into the garage....I still have a slight miss that I have to hunt down.

James, I think I will switch it back to running only the fuel with the Link and tune it that way for now.

[Jake Raby]

That rotor being so wide can definately add some weird things to the timing.... It can also throw the rotor out of balance...

I tried that once but had spark scatter so bad at 5,000 RPm that the engine acted like the valves floated..Swapped the rotor back and the problem was solved.

[McMark]

That sucks. I wonder why there was a problem. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/confused24.gif)

[Mueller]

QUOTE (McMark @ Nov 1 2005, 07:44 PM)

That sucks. I wonder why there was a problem. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/confused24.gif)

I'm guessing that the contacts in the old cap had been worn down some or that the tolerance of the new cap was on the minus side???

[Porcharu]

Sorry to hear about your "issues" at dyno time - my beater Volvo drove me nuts with a simalar problem.
I would have guessed yet another bad MSD box - I gave up on them after the 3rd one died and MSD lost 2 of them during repairs. My old boss worked on the old Shadow UOP can-am cars and had a huge box (75-100) of dead MSD boxes from the race cars.(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/sheeplove.gif)
Do you want that industrial PC for your mill???
Steve

[bd1308]

what causes the MSD boxes to die?

b

[Mueller]

QUOTE

CDI boxes are just another thing to break, and unless you NEED it (which you shouldn't for a near stock 1.8), is just going to be an unnecessary distraction.

The MSD box is needed with the Link ECU, it's basicaly a relay/triggering device for the coil.

Link [5vdc sq wave output] > MSD box > coil

I don't "need" the multifiring of the box...it just that the Link cannot handle the flyback from the coil and I believe it uses the MSD for that.

[DNHunt]

Man, I swear the only luck you have is bad luck. You know reading your stuff is what got me going down the MS road. I guess it's time for me to come clean. This is probably happening cause my wife spends every night sticking pins in a little doll that look kinda like you. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/ohmy.gif)

Dave

[Mueller]

Yea, bad luck tends to kick me in the @ss once in a while...the problems I've had with this FI and with the MS are mostly owner induced due to not reading the instructions or carelessness (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/screwy.gif)

On a more positive note, the owner/operator of the chassis dyno was impressed with the software/interface and mentioned it was one of the best he has seen...

I called the shop and left a message later that night to let him know what the problem was and that I think I still have the timing screwed up (right before the car died I "thought" I read 23° advance with the timing light on the fan at idle) The owner called back yesterday and voluntered to drive to my house to help me with the timing issue free of charge.

Also, Ben M (airsix) sent me a link to an Ignition Coil Driver which should be able to replace the MSD box completely..it's pretty amazing what such a small part can do.

ignition coil driver

[lapuwali]

This part is discussed endlessly on the MSEFI forums. Lots of circuit diagrams and info on using it.

[fiid]

Yeah - I think the MSv3 board can run a set of those for Coil-on-plug.

Tasty. I might have to upgrade (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/smile.gif)

[airsix]

Mike,
You had the link firing the coil before? I thought you were running the link fuel-only. If the link was firing the coil, where was the ECU getting it's timing signal from? Was it getting it from a pickup mounted in the distributor (like a pertronix or optical pickup?). If you were feeding a timing signal to the link via the distributor, is your distributor locked? The link would need to get it's timing signal at the same crank-angle regardless of rpm/load. An unlocked dizzy will change the angle at which the ECU get's it's signal depending on rpm/load and the ECU will calculate the wrong crank-possition. I know you know this - I'm currious how you were feeding the crank signal to the Link though.

-Ben M.

[Aaron Cox]

IIRC mike has a Mallory Unilite (optical pickup) and he locked out all advance on it.

mike - why did you have to mod the rotor tip?

[jonwatts]

QUOTE (Aaron Cox @ Nov 3 2005, 10:13 AM)

mike - why did you have to mod the rotor tip?

Helloooo, because he's Mike.


Don't be so hard on yourself Mike (yes, that's right, I said "hard on"). They don't call it a learning curve for nothing. How many times did Benjamin Franklin fail to make the light bulb? (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/wink.gif)