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> seatbelt buzzer wiring
Dave_Darling
post Nov 10 2005, 09:49 PM
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QUOTE (double-a @ Nov 10 2005, 06:37 PM)
it looks a lot better than some of the other bypass setups i've seen though. how can i undo it?

Don't. You really don't want this thing to be fully operational--it is one more potential failure point for your starter circuit. It's yet one more place you can be losing voltage going to the starter, which is pretty much the last thing you want to happen. It's also stupid to require the seat belt to be fastened before you can start the car. Just... stupid.

If you want it to look original, then replace the main wiring harness so you will have all un-cut wires. If that's too extreme, solder the wires together and cover with shrink-tubing. Use more (large diameter!) tubing to encase all of the wires past the point where they are spliced, thus hiding the splices from view. But I'd have the yellow starter wire there just be a dummy, and have the yellow and yellow/red wires spliced together out of view.

Otherwise you (or the next owner of your car) will be back here in a few years, asking about "hot start relay kits" and other starter fixes...

--DD
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double-a
post Nov 10 2005, 10:05 PM
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ok, i'll just leave it as-is, since the two wires have been joined with that scotch clip deal.

so why'd they even install these things in new models if they went bad so quickly? lemme guess... gov't requirements, right? (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/wacko.gif)

~a
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jim_hoyland
post Nov 10 2005, 10:51 PM
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Dave, Your point is well taken; you are right about the problems a fully functional relay causes. I'm sure that's the reason my looks like a disaster--but starts every time !

What Im looking for is how was it originally set up so I can more/less connect everything that isn't going to cause a major problem.

Jeff, thanks for the diagram. I think that will help.
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ejm
post Nov 11 2005, 01:18 AM
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Scotch locks suck as a reliable way to make a connection. They cut the insulation and sometimes a few strands of wire guaranteeing a bad connection when moisture get in there.

This pic shows how the factory bridged the starter wiring when they eliminated the starter interupt relay in favor of the warning light/buzzer only.



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jim_hoyland
post Nov 11 2005, 08:44 AM
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This may be a dumb question, but I really don't know: Where do the yellow wire go to. They are huge, I assume they are related to the start function. I don't recall seeing a yellow wire at the starter or solonoid. The pictures are great, hope to clean this mess up.


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JeffBowlsby
post Nov 11 2005, 08:48 AM
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QUOTE
Where do the yellow wire go to


In my best Obi-wan voice...

Jim...the diagram....use the diagram....

Check you starter solenoid again, there should be a big yella wire going to it.

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r_towle
post Nov 23 2005, 08:29 PM
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this diagram from Bowlsby should be in the classic thread...

Rich
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double-a
post Nov 23 2005, 08:43 PM
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QUOTE (ejm @ Nov 10 2005, 11:18 PM)
This pic shows how the factory bridged the starter wiring when they eliminated the starter interupt relay in favor of the warning light/buzzer only.

looks like they just hooked them end to end with one of those rectangular plastic thingies that appear in other places on the car. maybe i'll go that route. or maybe i'll leave the scotch clip and hope for the best (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif)

~a
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jim_hoyland
post Nov 23 2005, 10:02 PM
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I've been wondering how the relay worked. My only reference is how a standard power relay works: small current triggers a larger current. There are a lot of wires at passenger seat relay ie Bowslby's diagram. How do the seat belt wires, in-seat wires, and other work together ???

Really curious,
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r_towle
post Nov 23 2005, 10:38 PM
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I was just informed that it may be that these have ground triggers verus positive triggers...

That explains all the ground wires...

It is clearly a multi function relay...for both seat pressure and seat belt connection..

Im bringing it to my EE Dad tommorow for a detailed anaylsis....cause I wanna know too....

Rich
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jim_hoyland
post Nov 23 2005, 11:06 PM
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Now we're getting somewhere ! Really looking forward to getting the details
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MecGen
post Nov 24 2005, 06:56 AM
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You Guys (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/aktion035.gif)

Keep us informed on what you find. Great info here.
Might be a good place for a car alarm.

Salut
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jim_hoyland
post Nov 24 2005, 08:22 AM
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Exactly ! When we know how that thing works, there are prolly some new or unintended uses that it could help with.
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r_towle
post Nov 24 2005, 05:24 PM
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ok..,.,.

I have delivered a complete wired up relay...wiring digrams etc...so...we should know by this weekend WHYit works and HOW is works...

Rich
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grasshopper
post Nov 27 2005, 12:34 PM
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well??? (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif)
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Carlitos Way
post Nov 27 2005, 04:50 PM
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I'm not sure where I read this.. or if it is accurate... but wasn't there a recall to have dealers bypass this "feature" in the past?
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grasshopper
post Nov 27 2005, 04:55 PM
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QUOTE (Carlitos Way @ Nov 27 2005, 02:50 PM)
I'm not sure where I read this.. or if it is accurate... but wasn't there a recall to have dealers bypass this "feature" in the past?

yes (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif)
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r_towle
post Dec 5 2005, 10:24 AM
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This is from DAD,

Only partly (80%). I did spend several hours on it. Lots of diagrams but no analysis yet. I will get back to it but I can't promise when.
Within the module is a printed circuit board with several resistors, diodes, and transistors along with two relays. The other module is a relay (buzzer probably). I have reverse engineered most of the circuits but not enough yet to come to any conclusions. One problem is the relays are so badly corroded that I cannot trace the circuits tied to them. The rest of the circuits are clearly all the logic associated with the buzzer and warning light. I have traced most of them but ran out of time. If anyone has another module less corroded it would help. Also if there is any diagram of the leads coming to the module it would be very helpful in analyzing the insides of the module. All I have is the earlier 1973 version without a module.
One puzzle , not yet solved, is how many leads coming to the module are hot (12v). One possibility is the heavy leads you bypassed are the only source of 12v and only when the ignition is turned on.
Another possibility comes from the 1973 schematic which shows some black leads coming from fuse 11 which are hot all the time and could be trouble if shorted to ground. I am not sure when I can get back to it so if I were you I would just terminate them with some protection to prevent grounding.
One question I have is "Do you know of any time when the buzzer and/or light is supposed to come on without the ignition being on....such as key left in lock (off) and door opened?
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r_towle
post Dec 5 2005, 02:57 PM
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Im gonna need some help here.

Does anyone have a seatbelt relay that they dont want and yet is not all rusty...

And/or...does anyone have a detailed wiring diagram for the 74 seat belt buzzer system...possibly out of the true porsche service manual???

Rich
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jim_hoyland
post Dec 5 2005, 06:28 PM
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Glad to see this is still a work in progress. Very interested in learning more here; anuy one got a donar ?
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