Take shots at this idea......, I'm sure there's something wrong with it Options

[URY914]

I'm thinking you're only going to be cooling the headers and not heating the water enough to be able to heat a core to heat the interior.

Think about a water cooled engine, the real heat is in the heads and that is where the water is heated for the interior heater system. The heads get VERY hot and the water jacket in the heads carries that heat away.

The headers of a 914 don't get as hot as the heads do in a water cooled engine. I think the water will get harm and the headers will be cooled but the water will not be hot enough.

It is a good idea and I think would work if the water was hotter.

Does anyone know if the heater in the Wasserbox (the water cooled type IV) used a heater core and the water off the heads?

Paul

[maf914]

QUOTE (Kerrys914 @ Nov 10 2005, 04:45 AM)

Best of luck but you will need a way increase the pressure in the system to keep the water from boiling. You don't want STEAM heat.

You could use another fluid if boiling becomes a problem. Maybe a light oil. Cooking oil will go above 400 F before igniting. Then you could operate a deep fat fryer in the front trunk. You want fries with that? (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/laugh.gif)

Does anti-freeze affect the boiling point of water? (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/idea.gif)

[SLITS]

QUOTE (maf914 @ Nov 10 2005, 07:24 AM)

Does anti-freeze affect the boiling point of water? (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/idea.gif)

Duh! (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/slap.gif)

Ever read the back of the bottle? (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif)

[effutuo101]

Back in my 4x4 days I took copper tubing and wrapped it around a few down tubes on my header. I used small bits of tubeing to go between each pipe so I could prebend the tubing and spiral it on. I would then pump water thru it and into a shower head. I had to play around with the number of wraps to get the temperature right for my showers, but it worked great. I sealed it up with header wrap to contain the heat. Start the motor, let it warm up, start the pump, and take a hot shower. I should work for a heater.... (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/smash.gif)

[Kerrys914]

I think it would be easier to use a small oil cooler (motorcycle) and an oil thermostat to get heat from. I have a system sketch I made when I was going down this road. IT can be done with little cost, if you can DIY. I put a SIX in and don't need heat right now.

Just keep the oil lines and cooler out of the cabin and you should be fine. You wont get alot of heat from it if you run 0F air across the coil, but if you duct cabin air to (and through) it you should get some good heat.

Try this.... Duct cabin air (return) from the passenger side long duct to a coil and then back into the cabin (supply) through the driver side long duct. This would help with the "oil" smell and help with maintaining the heat.

You can use OEM air valves or just fab your own. This design should work fine, if you can DIY it into your car.

[jsteele22]

A couple of thoughts...

1) Cooling the exhaust gas as it flows through the headers/muffler/etc. is bad from the point of view of performance. I'm not sure how much, but seemingly trivial changes to an exhaust system do make noticeable effects. You've got a sweet engine, make sure you don't rob yourself of all the power you've paid for. (Of course, the stock H/Es do cool the exhaust, so the effect prolly isn't so great after all.)

2) I think any kind of tubing wrapped in/around the exhaust system is going to be a headache. If the tubing isn't brazed/welded on, you won't get much heat transfer; if it is, the frequent, huge heat cycles are going to make for serious thermal expansion stress issues. I wouldn't count on it lasting very long.

3) Using hot oil might work, but not nearly as well as water. The specific heat of oil is only half that of water, and I think the viscosity makes a boundary layer that hurts as well. But with a big enough oil cooler and fan, you can prolly get enough heat.

3) Are you handy with upholstry ? How about running a zig-zag pattern of 1/8" tubing through your seats and plumbing it in to the oil circuit. That way no annoying fan noises taint the sweet sweet sounds of your 6.

4) As an alternative, you could move the oil tank into the cabin. Put in in the passenger seat, dresss it up a bit, and you can ride in the carpool lane.

5) If it was me, and I had the money, I'd go with a gas powered heater. I think I read that they were used in 911s in colder (e.g., Scandinavian) markets. Probably the best part is that you get heat right away. I don't know if gasoline odor is an issue, but Summit Racing sells gas fragrace additives with cool choices like grape, cherry, and pina colada.

[SirAndy]

QUOTE (East coaster @ Nov 9 2005, 06:57 PM)

My setup is a 3.6 with Euro race headers..........

how about those then ... (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/idea.gif)

(IMG:http://www.patrickmotorsports.com/img/parts/206.jpg)

[Kerrys914]

I would NOT run oil lines in the cabin...Not worth the RISK. HOT oil on skin is not fun..

It may have been done but avoid it. I have heard of some using copper pipe to incase the hose (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/unsure.gif)

[ewdysar]

I'm with Andy on this one. I would even believe that you could get heater boxes, like the ones shown, retrofitted to your current headers. That could be cheaper than the difference between selling yours and buying new w/boxes, if not, do the swap. This assumes that the rest of the stock style system is still there, air ports off of the cooling shroud, etc. This would give you all of the features of the stock climate control system.

Eric

[John]

You probably only need one heat exchanger.

My stock 1974 2.0 only has an aux. blower ducted to the driver side. The passenger side was blocked off at the factory (just like all the later cars were). Only the early cars seem to have been fitted with ducting to blow air into the passenger side via a "y" pipe installed on the aux. blower fan.

So in effect, the passenger side exchanger did very little in heating unless it was plumbed up like an early car.

With this in mind, I see no need to run with both exchangers. A box could be fabricated around one of the headers and ducted into one of the stock heater tubes to retain factory style heat/ventilation function.

just my 0.02.

(Or you could just wear a heavier coat)

[maf914]

QUOTE (SLITS @ Nov 10 2005, 07:43 AM)

QUOTE (maf914 @ Nov 10 2005, 07:24 AM) Does anti-freeze affect the boiling point of water?   (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/idea.gif) Duh! (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/slap.gif) Ever read the back of the bottle? (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif)

I drive a 914, so why would I even have a bottle of antifreeze, much less read it. Can we say aircooled? Helloooo! (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/laugh.gif)

[Mark Henry]

QUOTE (maf914 @ Nov 10 2005, 02:57 PM)

QUOTE (SLITS @ Nov 10 2005, 07:43 AM) QUOTE (maf914 @ Nov 10 2005, 07:24 AM) Does anti-freeze affect the boiling point of water?   (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/idea.gif) Duh! (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/slap.gif) Ever read the back of the bottle? (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif) I drive a 914, so why would I even have a bottle of antifreeze, much less read it. Can we say aircooled? Helloooo! (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/laugh.gif)

This will be the first winter with a watercooled...for the wife (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif)

She's tired of no heat on her 120Km round trip to work.

I'l have the 914, my '67 bug and her '67 bus for summer cars.
Just say no to water.

[Dave_Darling]

QUOTE (JOHNMAN @ Nov 10 2005, 10:51 AM)

You probably only need one heat exchanger. My stock 1974 2.0 only has an aux. blower ducted to the driver side.

While the heater blower is only connected to the driver's side, the engine cooling fan is connected to both sides. They both do contribute to the heat.

The 70-72 cars had a centrally-mounted fan with two outlets. 73-74 had the fan on the driver's side with a single outlet; 75-76 had the side-mounted fan with a splitter on the outlet.

The original Sixes (and all 911s up into the 70s at least!) had no heater blower at all. All warm air came from the engine cooling fan and was then pushed into the heat exchangers.

BTW, several very experienced 914-6 conversion people have said that the quality of the currently available aftermarket 914-6 exchangers is less than stellar. I know at least one who has told me that he will only use stock exchangers, or headers--period. No more aftermarket exchangers at all for him.

--DD

[goose2]

QUOTE

BTW, several very experienced 914-6 conversion people have said that the quality of the currently available aftermarket 914-6 exchangers is less than stellar.

I've heard this also...from those who have tried them. I think the gas heater is probably still the best option....had one in an old Corvair once when I lived in Michigan and it really cooked. Anybody know the price range on these?

[fiid]

50/50 antifreeze and water raises the boiling point up to about 250 degrees F.

I think you'll get enough heat, but building and maintaining the system will probably be more of a pain than buying a set of headers with HEs on. You can also sell on your existing headers to help offset the cost. It might even be cheaper.

Fluid systems are hard enough when you have an existing thermostat and water pump and you're just trying to get everything working right. Something like this I think you'd have to do some work to stop it boiling over.

With my Subaru conversion, I could reliably boil my cooling system before it got to temp because one of the coolant hoses went too close to the header/up-pipe - so I'm reasonably sure there is enough heat there. But it did boil the system over. Took me a long while to track the problem down.

[Andyrew]

How about running an oil cooler on the front grill vent by the dash, and putting the vent box under it or surrounding it for your heat. Add a fan, and some levers to close it, and you have adjustable heat...

That is what im going to do with my sbc.