HELP Lost Small Claims Case, Vintage Misprepresented Options

[jbegood2000]

Hi Everyone,

I need some help. I posted a thread a few months ago about an alleged 1973 1.7 I purchased in Fresno. I bought the car for $1,100.00 and invested another $2,600.00 in getting the vehicle to run right. After the car was in the shop for a couple months I picked it up and found the VIN numbers ground off the right fenderwell. I suspected something early on as I bought a '72 off of ebay about a month after I bought the "73" and began to see a lot discprencies in the car that I'll list below.

I went to small claims in Fresno on Thursday, Nov. 10th and my case was heard by a "Temporary Judge". Normally you can't appeal in small claims but this judge, only being an attorney, they allow you appeal his decision if you don't like it. I brought pages from Tech Tips 707 and "How to Restore Your Porcshe 914 & 914/6 (Patrick Paternie) and highlighted all teh differences from 70/71 -73. I know this "73" is a 70 or 71 for a fact with the VIN on the windshield and the headlight bucket being changed to match the '73 pink slip. The judge rushed me through the differences and seemed to forget that I told him any conversion of dash column, dash board and retractable seat belts was impractical as it was far too labor intensive to be logical. The paint code tag is still on the car L60E (Irish Green) which was not a 1973 offering only 70 or 71. I also brought several pictures of the subject vehicle as well as an actual 73 that was pristine that I saw at a PCA A/C in Stockton in September.

The dilemna is this he told us he would be taking all the evidence and comments under advisement and let us know by mail. I just looked my case up on the net and he has ruled that I did not prove that the DMV would not register the vehicle and that I did not prove that the car was not an actual 73 and could not prove that the vehicle has a reduced value because it has been compromised (he's obviously not a car kinda guy). He said he would review the evidence but obviously did not. The irony of the thing is that when I checked in to court the bailiff said "Hey you're suing over a Porsche is it a 914?" I told him yes and he said "Man I had one of those it was favorite car". The few items in dispute the judge did allow to me read the bailiff stood there shaking his yes to everything I said. After the hearing the bailiff chased me down in the hallway and said "Hey if you get stuck with that car I'll give $400 for it" So I guess the judge didn't pay attention to the bailiff either...lol

Okay guys here it is how much would you pay for '73 or any 914 with the VIN number shaved off it as opposed to a vehicle with matching VINs and needing fresh paint (body is staright) and new carpets, seat covers, targa top rubber, new windshield seals and replace battery tray. Subject vehicle has good rubber on Fuchs? How much would pay for a car this compromised even with proper VIN? How much would pay for 73 in similar condition that is original?

The dicrepencies brought into evidence that tells me it's a70/71 were:

L60E Paint Code (and actual vehicle color as well)
Stationary Passenger Seat (corduroy seat inserts)
Non-Retracting Seat Belts
Wiper Switch on Dash (not column)
Center Dash Vent
No Front Bumperettes
Gold Emblems
Two Piece Park Brake Handle
Muffler ( I ordered a new one from Pelican Parts and when the shop put in on the rear valance would no longer fit)

Please enter any and all opinions as I will print them and take them to my appeal.

Thanks In Advance !!!!!

Larry

[sean_v8_914]

you though you were buying a 73 but its really a 70-72, right?

did you inspect it yourself prior to purchasing it?

[McMark]

I think you paid a fair price for a decent sounding car. Under $4k for a good running car sounds about right. I can't think of a reason someone would change the VIN to a later model, except for resale, but even that seems like a lot of effort for a small value. There's one thing that I was thinking as I read your post that you never mentioned. Tampering with VINs is illegal. So you've been sold an illegal car, technically speaking. Of course pointing this out in court may be to your disadvantage because they may make you go back to the original VIN which is probably lost. Maybe they'd then impound your car? I have no idea, but it might be best to just let sleeping dogs lie.

It's a real bummer of a situation though. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/sad.gif)

[jbegood2000]

I did look at the car....but I hadn't seen or driven 914 in years so I didn't know about any of the differences in them. I had a friend who had a '72 and I used to drive it around whenever he borrowed my pick up but that was back in 74 and 75. So....like a dummy I bought the car first and bought the books later. The guy who sold it top me has a restored '72 and he picked the subject vehicle as a parts car. Somebody traded the "73" in a Lexus at his buddy's Lexus dealership. I think he bought the car from his buddy site unseen and had it hauled from Bakersfield to Fresno and when he got it he realized he had a hot potato and passed to me.......ahhh live and learn.

[jbegood2000]

Hey Mark.....Thanks for the reply....I here ya..when I found out the VIN was filed I contacted the Fresno PD who called me back 3 days later and said "Take it to the CHP on Shaw Ave and they'll assign it a VIN number"....kind of a weird response I thought but they seemed to not be concerend about it...probably because the car is old and they probably see weird stuff like this a lot I gues (???)

[nomore9one4]

Just my 2cents..I have a 72" that is original and is paint code L60 Irish Green. Si they did still have it in 72'. As for $ it is very reasonable what you paid and any further persistance may get you into trouble.Just "Enjoy the ride". (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/beerchug.gif)

[jbegood2000]

Mark,

OOoooppppps sorry didn't answer your question..I think they tampered with the VIN (ground it off) probably because they took the windshield and headlight VIN off a wrecked 73 and stuck them a hot 70/71 nad had an instant "clean car"....I can't find anyplace wher teh car has been molested...ie: two cars made into one.

[jbegood2000]

Hey Boboli.....yup I show Irish Green as good for a '72 also...the green for '73 is paint code L64K....Zambezi Green...I just don't want to get stuck with something I can't sell at some point...ya know ?

[LvSteveH]

The problem with your case, is that you did not "prove" anything. Your evidence is suspicious, but there is no actual proof, as you presented it, that a small claims court judge could use to render a binding decision. Proof would be finding evidence of the original VIN, or proof that VIN currently on the car is not original to the car. If the factory VIN was simply ground out on the fender, then you can strip the back side to bare metal and read it from the back. It helps to take a digital picture to enhance and reverse the image to make it readable. IF the car was stolen, it could have been so long ago it has fallen off all the books. If you can avoid it, you do not want them to reassign a VIN, because it is a generic VIN and not in the factory format.

You’ll also have a lot of trouble fingering the person you got it from, because they could have been an unsuspecting victom just like you were. It becomes a bit of a hot potato, and you are the last one holding it. What you spent to buy the car originally isn’t all that much, and he could price all the parts and say what you paid was a fair price just for the parts you received.

Your best bet is to do research and try to find the VIN that belongs with the car, then you can order the certificate of authenticity from Porsche, and confirm the body number. You can also check with your local department of motor vehicles. They have access to a service that can run a history on the VIN, as it was brought into the country back in the 70’s. I think the data is on microfiche and they have to call in to have it researched. They may or may not have a body number that corresponds with the car.

I know it sucks, but it isn’t the end of the world. Do everything you can to get the right VIN back on the car. That way you are 100% legal and correct, and it only slightly affects the value. If you have a VIN assigned or use the inaccurate one, then you aren’t that much better than the people who switched it in the first place. Do not put too much faith in the DMV or police. They will give you a new VIN just to get you out of their hair, and as long as it doesn’t show up on a hot list, they really aren’t too concerned. I would not rest until I had the right VIN on the right car. Otherwise, buy a clean roller and swap the parts. Good Luck.

[davep]

You should be able to find the original VIN: look on the underside of the dash top (above the ash tray) and the # will be written in grease pencil.

[jbegood2000]

Thanks Steve,

Great reply !!! Yup I would have no problem the vehicle being a 70/71 if the pink says the same. They filed the VIN so far that the area it was in is concave so going through the otherside (underneath) may be my only hope. I have a few more questions if you don't mind.

Are there any corresponding numbers that I can send to Porshce to narrow down the search or supplement it ?

And...how do I contact Porcshe factory do get the process started ?

Thanks Again For All Your Help,

Larry

PS: You're absolutley right I don't want to be like the people that did this to my car...I want to sleep at night...

[jbegood2000]

Hi Dave....yeah I think I remember you telling about the grease pencil the first time I brought up this poor bastardized car..I did check up there...but it's clean..but I think you also said something about the trunk stamp as well.....I know it's not the VIN but maybe it crosses ????

Pls Advise,

Larry

[LvSteveH]

Uhhhh…… that’s the confidential VIN location that should probably not posted on the web. Best saved for private messages. You might want to edit your post. I’m not being a goodie goodie, but if that becomes general knowledge, it will be that much harder to prove the proper VIN of a car and prevent fraud. You’d be amazed at what you can find searching old posts. Just my .02 cents

on edit: With regard to getting help from Porsche, don't expect much. You'll need the full original VIN to get the COA. The body number in the trunk and on that door tag may be on the import records if they request a search (at DMV)