Starter Issues???, Sometimes she starts, sometimes she dont Options

[jgara962]

Started having starting issues at the Laguna Seca gathering. Sometimes I turn the key and it started, and sometimes I would turn the key and there would be nothing. It's not related to a hot start issue, because the car sat for different periods of time.

Ran some tests today. Voltage at the battery was 12.5 and at the solanoid it was 11.5 or 11 - can't remember. The car started three times on it's own, but when I tried the screwdriver test, the starter spun but didn't start.

So before I go tearing into things, based on these tests, I'm guessing there is an issue with the starter right, and not the battery, ignition, or solanoid.

[davep]

The battery voltage is low. It should be about 12.8.
I'd be replacing the ignition switch electrical part. That is usually where it becomes intermittent.
Check the ground strap at the tranny and the ground stud at the battery.
I often put a second cable from the battery post to the fan shroud.

[McMark]

Did you have the key in the ON position when you used the screwdriver to short the solenoid? No offense, just covering the basics. If shorting the solenoid made the starter spin, but not the engine, the solenoid is failing. If shorting the solenoid spun the engine, then it's doing its job even if the engine didn't fire. The starters job in life is to spin the engine and that's all, making the engine fire is the job of the ignition and fuel systems. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/wink.gif) I know you know all this, I'm just talking here.

If you turn the key and nothing happens, either of two things are happening. It could be that the ignition switch has cracked as they often do and it's not actually making the connection when you turn the key. It could also be that the ignition switch is doing it's job, but for some reason there is not enough voltage getting to the starter to do its thing.

I have some spare starters that we can swap in in about 15 minutes if you want to do some testing before you spend $.

[jgara962]

Yep, the ignition was on when I did the screwdriver test, and the only thing that happened was the starter spun, but the engine didn't start. So does that mean solenoid?

I haven't been able to get the damn thing to start since I got back from Laguna. Had to push start it when I dropped my friend off in Vallejo that night. Fired right up two nights ago when I tried it, and today when I was screwing with it, it fired up all three times I tried it. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/confused24.gif)

Should I just pull out the ignition and see if its cracked? Was thinking about putting in a starter button anyway. We could try the other starters, but until it doesn't fire again, I won't know if that was the problem.

[McMark]

The part I'm unclear on is you said:

QUOTE

I did the screwdriver test, and the only thing that happened was the starter spun, but the engine didn't start.

The starter spun, but did the engine spin with it? Or just the starter spinning by itself? Start spun by itself = bad starter. Starter and engine spun = more troubleshooting.

[jgara962]

Sorry, starter spun by itself.

[ClayPerrine]

You need to jumper from the battery cable post to the spade connector for the yellow wire, NOT to the big post on the bottom of the solenoid. If you do that, the starter will NEVER engage. The yellow wire pulls the starter gear into the flywheel teeth and feeds power to the motor. Jumping across will not pull in the starter gear, but the motor will spin.


Check the wiring to the starter first, then if it's OK, replace the solenoid on top of the starter.

[McMark]

Clay, I don't think you can short the yellow wire terminal to the bottom post with a screwdriver.

[meares]

i'm having the same prob. i haven't tried the screwdriver yet... i've got a button ready to go.....where are you going to put yours?

[Cap'n Krusty]

QUOTE (McMark @ Nov 12 2005, 01:24 PM)

Clay, I don't think you can short the yellow wire terminal to the bottom post with a screwdriver.

That's NOT what Clay said. He said that you can't jump the 2 posts together and get the solenoid (note the spelling) to engage the starter. That's obviously what the original poster did. You jump from the battery cable post of the starter to the tab or spade connector above it to get the solenoid to engage and the starter to spin.

It IS frustrating to have to go through this explanation once a month ..............


A 1 or 1.5 volt drop from the battery to the starter is unacceptable, especially when there's no load on the circuit. Cables need to be cleaned and connections assured here. Furthermore, wiring diagrams need to be read and understood.

The Cap'n, in a particularly Krusty mood today..........

[Cap'n Krusty]

QUOTE (meares @ Nov 12 2005, 03:40 PM)

i'm having the same prob. i haven't tried the screwdriver yet... i've got a button ready to go.....where are you going to put yours?

Putting in a starter button in because the starter in intermittant is like applying a bandaid to a bullet wound. FIX THE PROBLEM! The Cap'n

[meares]

yeah i know, but i just WAITING for an excuse to put in!! (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/beerchug.gif)

[jgara962]

QUOTE (meares @ Nov 12 2005, 03:40 PM)

i'm having the same prob. i haven't tried the screwdriver yet... i've got a button ready to go.....where are you going to put yours?

Looking at it today, probably in the space between the lighter and the heater controls. There even feels like there is already a small hole or indentation in the metal that is perfectly centered between the two.

[markb]

I've been dealing with a bunch of wiring issues on the black car, and have had intermittant problems with starting. I'd replaced the switch, housing, and cleaned all the connections. I finally stumbled on it yesterday. The connecters were loose in the housing that plugs into the ignition switch. They were loose because of frequent pluggin and unplugging. I took each wire out of the housing, compressed the connecter, replaced it in the housing, and everything has worked fine. Just my .02.

[gr_elvis]

Did you have the key in the ON position when you used the screwdriver to short the solenoid? No offense, just covering the basics. If shorting the solenoid made the starter spin, but not the engine, the solenoid is failing. If shorting the solenoid spun the engine, then it's doing its job even if the engine didn't fire. The starters job in life is to spin the engine and that's all, making the engine fire is the job of the ignition and fuel systems. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) I know you know all this, I'm just talking here.

If you turn the key and nothing happens, either of two things are happening. It could be that the ignition switch has cracked as they often do and it's not actually making the connection when you turn the key. It could also be that the ignition switch is doing it's job, but for some reason there is not enough voltage getting to the starter to do its thing.

I have some spare starters that we can swap in in about 15 minutes if you want to do some testing before you spend $.

Is there a difference in starters from 1.7 1.8 and 2.0 for the 914? My flaps is trying to tell me I need a starter that has no nose cone the gear just sticks out the back on the shaft and when I put that one in it didnt work nor was it anything like The one that came out of the car, So I oredered the one for 2.0 and it looks right but sounds like it is jamiing in the flywheel and staying engaged . Makes a horrible noise. HELP!?

[Spoke]

I had the exact same issue with my red car's starter. Sometimes the starter would start and sometimes not. I noticed also at times that there was a slight delay from when I turned the key to when the starter started. Maybe like 1/4 to 1/2 second. What I found was that the rubber boot around the starter gear was sort of gummy and gave some resistance to moving the gear into place.

Since the action of the soleniod closing also closes the contacts for the starter motor, if the soleniod can't overcome the gummy-ness of the rubber boot and push out the gear, I got no starter action. I've had the starter out twice to spray lubricating fluid on the soleniod mechanism and boot and the second time was about half a year ago. It's been working fine since then.

Spoke