Cooler air in cylinders equals more, P O W E R Options

[gregrobbins]

At the DE today at Firebird Raceway, there was one very quick 2.0L 914.

I met and talked with the owner John Seymour for awhile. One of the innovations he came up with really looks interesting. Instead of the stock air filter box. he looked for a way to get cooler air into the motor. Study the photo (I have more if you want me to post). He ran a PVC pipe from the TPS to hoses that go down to the J tubes. From there they are connected to the air ducts in the longs and finally, he is pulling air from the opening in front of the windshield. He claims it works like a charm. I don't doubt him, as he is running D-jet and was as quick or quicker than the 2.0L cars that had been converted to carbs.

[bd1308]

its cool if you dont need heat.


i give him props for making that up from what he had though.



b

[gregrobbins]

Oh yea, the car is listed for sale on the AZ Region PCA web site:

FOR SALE: 1974 914 2.0
Black/Black AX and DE car. One of the fastest, best handling 914's around. All of the latest tricks. Many $K's invested. Not registered for the street, but clear AZ title. Originally a CA car. Extra wheels/tires. Lots of spare parts. Can be put back on the street, if desired. $7500 obo.
Contact: John Seymour
Phone: 480-987-6508

The car is factory black and John says the former owner painted black over yellow. The VIN is correct for a Bumble Bee, so I have forwarded that information to Jeff.

[gregrobbins]

One more. Notice the venting for the oil cooler in the hood.

[bd1308]

a bumblebee?


(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/sad.gif)

[gregrobbins]

Yep, a Bumble Bee. VIN fall right in the middle of the run, correct black paint code and production date within the known time range. I gave the basics to Jeff, I will let him be the final judge if it should be added to the list or not.

[Hammy]

I'm a bit confused as to how the air goes to the cylinders..more pics, please (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/smile.gif)

[Brando]

Now if he put a little scoop over the front air vent he'd have RAM air!

[bd1308]

QUOTE (Hammy @ Nov 14 2005, 12:49 AM)

I'm a bit confused as to how the air goes to the cylinders..more pics, please (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/smile.gif)

the normal way....


the unique thing here is that the air "supply" is now being taken from the engine bay through the J-tubes....and through the longs (where the heating ducts usually are) and into the front somewhere.....

colder air = more dense = more oxygen = more BAM!


b

[mightyohm]

Does that actually work or is all the piping a restriction? Plus the tubes must get pretty close to the exhaust on their way up. I am guessing negligible improvement if any.

[Andyrew]

I agree, probably negligable.

You want cold air? duct it to the top of the car, or the sail pannels(my pref).

I agree on the scoop...

but hey, if it works

[gregrobbins]

Does it work? He says he is running a stock fi 2.0L and he is quicker than the other 2.0Ls, injected or carbed. While at speed, I would think that the air running through the tubes would not have time to heat up much when passing by the heat exchangers. Does he get enough volume? The size of each of the two tubes is bigger than the opening on the factory air filter box, so I would think volume would not be an issue.

Interesting idea.

[Jake Raby]

Cooler air makes more power, no matter the engine- as long as enrichment is correct for the given air temperature..

Look at all newer cars, they have fresh air intakes from the front of the vehicle- thats why, the engine bay gets hot and hot air doesn't make power.

This is also the reason I have fresh air intakes into my dyno just for the carbs/ Throttle bodies.

[dmenche914]

No provision for an air filter is seen. In my opinion not a good idea to run that way, unless you like scuffed up pistons and bores.



dirt is an engines enemy

[URY914]

There is no doubt that cooler air can make more power, but does this set up make more power?

Seems like a lot of work when something else that is simpler may work also. I've seen where guys will take sheetmtal or f/g and seal off the top of the engine compartment and stick the air intake thru the sheetmetal so that only cooler air is pulled in.

Or why not take the engine lid off on track days and stick a 24" piece of PVC pipe on the intake and tie it to the targa bar/ roof? At least it would be less work.

If he thinks it works and he's happy with it I guess it doesn't matter. This is the new kinder gentler me. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/beerchug.gif)

[Jake Raby]

It doesn't look like it has very much volume to me...

[ChrisFoley]

The fresh air box ahead of the windshield sees higher pressure air than the engine grille, probably enough to make up for the added drag through the tubes.

[Rand]

QUOTE (dmenche914 @ Nov 14 2005, 08:14 AM)

No provision for an air filter is seen.  In my opinion not a good idea to run that way, unless you like scuffed up pistons and bores.  dirt is an engines enemy

I would think the air filter would be at the end... probably right under the fresh air intake grill. Or at least I hope so! (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/unsure.gif)

[Dr. Roger]

old school drag racers used a cool can to chill fuel before it goes to the engine.

New school guys use intercoolers for the air.

I always thought using a cool can (chilled water in an intercoler would be a great idea...

really condensing the air for max power.

[nebreitling]

QUOTE (rogergrubb @ Nov 14 2005, 12:42 PM)

old school drag racers used a cool can to chill fuel before it goes to the engine. New school guys use intercoolers for the air. I always thought using a cool can (chilled water in an intercoler would be a great idea... really condensing the air for max power.

i agree -- i'm thinking some sort of dry-ice packed fuel cooler + some ducted air from the sail panels or targa top could be worth a few hp, particularly on a hot day.