OT sorry, may need help?, Any Attorneys specializing in Employment Options

[Thorshammer]

I need some direction from anyone that has dealt with employment law in California. I have a situation that has arisen, and need some advice. Please PM. Thanks,


Erik

[SpecialK]

Can't help you, and don't know if you received any PMs.....but no replies this far down the front page (from a familiar name) deserves a... (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/icon_bump.gif)

Hope you get the info you're lookin' for!

[Jake Raby]

If someone needs their ass beat, let me know! I need to go to Cali anyway! LOL

[Thorshammer]

It's really simple.

A manager in my company made the decision to buy a vehicle back from a customer. I had not finished installing the last part, we were trying to repair the unit. We had the part, but not the gasket to reassemble the engine. Well, when the vehicle got to California to the home office, they finally got the gasket, (it was back ordered) and when started the bike ran as it should. So actually after a week of troubleshooting, I had fixed it, but the corporation had moved on to buy it back. We just did'nt know it was fixed.

Now, the management is attempting to place the blame on me and after several heated emails, I probably should at least consult with an attorney to make sure of the law and where I stand. Nothing has happened so far, but I know these guys very well, and they like to force you out claiming other issues. It's a shame, I like the job very much.

Anyone need a tech rep/sales rep??? Northeastern US. Have cell phone will travel. Medical,Industrial,Vehicle.

Erik

[fiid]

Not a lawyer, but here's my understanding.

1) California is an at-will state - which supposedly technically means either party can terminate at any time.

2) No company I have ever worked for in california has ever acted like 1) is actually true. Conventional wisdom is that to fire someone requires them to have been notified of their performance problem at least say twice, once in writing, and been given a chance to rectify.

It really doesn't sound like you're not performing. It sounds like there was a miscommunication, which is not an uncommon thing. You might want to consider writing something that is more apologetic in tone (but not necessarily apologising.) and that you could do your job better if you were better informed of the facts. My goal would be to try to take the heat out of the situation. You might want to try and have a conversation on the phone or in person too - I sometimes find myself having really heated email discussions with people and overreacting to things - so this might be what your manager is doing.

Anyways - hope it works out okay.

[Carl]

As an employer in California, Fiid's advice is solid. Termination of an employee for poor performance normally requires written notice and an opportunity to correct the problem.

Termination for other business conditions is a different matter. Layoffs because of a decline in business or restructuring the company don't require advance notice or an opportunity to fill an open position. Just be sure your employer doesn't use the restructuring claim to shortcut the termination process for percieved poor performance.

Again, I think Fiid's advice is good - try to divert the emotional component and focus on the performance question. It's hard to do but may save a job you like.

Carl

[KaptKaos]

Also as a California employer, I can tell you that email is the worst way to communicate. People read things into email that are not there and people write things in email that they do not really intend. Mood, attitude and other events all impact how someone will read an email.

That said, document all of the work you did as best you can. Make sure you have dates, times and print out (repeat: print out) any email that pertain to this issue. Protect yourself by having all of the facts that backup your position.

California is generally an at will state, but there are always exceptions. Larger companies have policies and procedures for dealing with problems, so consult your HR people. If its a small company (under 20 people if I recall) then they can pretty much do what they want.

Good luck, and get that paper trail as you may need it later.

[r_towle]

Where you live and where you work is the law that applies. Basically, your employment agreement may state that all laws in CA will be applied, but the employer can choose which way to go on this one...BTDT...whichever state is beneficial to the company...that is the one they will use...I would say apologise...eat some crow and move on.

Im MA you can be fired for no cause..
Check your local laws...

Also, you might want to look at your paper work that you signed up front...it should say employee at will somewhere....if so..its easy to fire someone...

Rich

[Thorshammer]

I agree about the emails, when you can't determine tone and so forth, how you read the email is important.

Thanks for the advice, like I said nothing has happened yet, but I did get a thinly veiled apology from one of the "involved". It amazes me that a person can give a company 5 solid years of work, and none of that really matters. What have you done for me lately.

As for apologizing, Sorry, not my way to apologize when I did nothing wrong. It's kind of like, copping a plea bargain. If I am not guilty I'm not going to bargain, Even when I know the consequences will be worse. That dog just won't hunt.

As for documentation, I have already printed the initial report, the emails and took dates and times. Just want to protect myself.

Thanks Again,

Erik

[fiid]

I'm sorry that you feel that using an apolegetic tone is like pleading guilty to something you didn't do.

[Thorshammer]

Fiid,

I think you probably have to know the inner workings of the company. ANY sign of weakness is considered accepting responsibility. And an apologetic tone, I just don't normally have, because, although sometimes I make mistakes, and that is the time to humble yourself and apologize as a man would do (and many woman) I just don't do it so others can feel good about what happened, Its just not my style. I do it when I am wrong, and I have complete responsibility for my own actions. I have never been that way and would never expect anyone to do it for me so I can feel good about it. I would expect the person to stand up for themselves and call "Bullshit" if they felt wrongly accused, and if they did'nt, I would know they did'nt have any balls. I know this is not something many of the west coasters do (not talking about your balls), but on the East Coast it happens all the time. I've seen it countless times in the board room. People talk on the phone, but when it is time to speak up they are flacid. Because some of you guys have to FEEL GOOD about what was said, even though it was negative. I have little or limited respect for anyone I work with that will eat crow or even appear that they'll eat crow for something they had nothing to do with. If others can go against their own principles or are weak principle'd (sic) enough to accept responsibility by using an apologetic tone, then they deserve to get stepped on. If this means my job, because I stand up for what is right, then I understand, and will accept that course. But I will not accept or place the responsibility on anyone other than where it belongs. I applaud you if you can, but this is not something I will do. Thanks for your advice. I actually think more of a man when he can accept responsibility. This type of integrity has been forgotten by many.

Erik

Post Script:
You really think you will get out of the ticket by saying, "I might have been going a little over officer". He knows you don't know, and guess what, PAY UP SUCKA ! (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/confused24.gif) I don't really see where this is any different?