Who is to blame? (Way off Topic), Man dies running from Police Options

[Part Pricer]

You pushed the wrong button?

Lemme look and see what I can find... I don't want to reset the whole poll.

What vote did you cast, and what did you mean to cast?

I hit the null vote button instead of the vote button.

I wanted to vote that the cops were culpable.

[Lawrence]

Hey Paul,

I don't see a simple answer to do that... and rather than screw up the databases and crash the BBS, I'm going to err on the side of caution and not touch it.

Sorry,
Rusty (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smoke.gif)

[Curvie Roadlover]

I think that you have to consider that police officers are responsible for the safety of an individual once they are in custody. This guy may have not had cuffs on or had been arrested. But, he had been given a blood alcohol test so he was clearly in police custody.

The guy bolted and dove in a lake. Was he a danger to the public or the police officers? Probably not. I would almost guarantee that the officers made sure that he wasn’t carrying any weapons prior to giving him the blood alcohol test.

It may not be popular and is contrary to my personal beliefs, but the officers involved were negligent in their duties. They were responsible for the safety of the individual and they were responsible for controlling the suspect.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif)
I'm sure there is shared responsibility here inthis young mans' death, the police and his own. Only those there know the truth. Running from the police, IMHO is very likely to get you roughed up and probably deservedly so. But not killed! And I'm talking about physically running, as in- on your feet. Running in a car puts innocent lives at risk. That's a whole different thing.

running from the cops or not, it's not like they threw him into the water. the results here are totally the result of the kids actions.

0. criminal history

1. breaking the law

2. running from the law

3. jumping into a lake

So, for that, a 17 year old boy deserves to die??

[Curvie Roadlover]

If they could have prevented his death, but stood by instead because they felt he was getting what he deserved, then they are responsible for his death.

[Pnambic]

I think Paul is right on in this one IF once they give you the breathalizer, you are technically in police custody. I don't know on that. But if the kid was in custody, they are responsible for keeping him from harming others as well as himself. That means that if he is in the back of the squad car and he starts banging his head on the window, the cops are required to get him to stop (tie him down, drug him, whatever (not shoot him)).

The real question here is whether or not the cops knew he was in the water and if so, could they see him and if so, could they get to him in time to save him. If so, they were obligated to at least try. It may suck, but its a dirty job and somebody has to do it.

I don't know if anyone here has jumped into a lake or other body of water to save someone that was drowning, but even someone who isn't running from the law, when drowning, is extremely dangerous....thrashing around....they could easily injure or even drown a person that was trying to save them.

Add to that the murky water and it was 4 a.m. and the chances that the police were able to see where he was or notice a small boat that was reportedly nearby become pretty remote.

[TheCabinetmaker]

There should be a law: "Run from police and they are allowed to beat the living s__t out of you."

I am an OKlahoma Self Defense Act Instructor. I teach a class that is required to apply for your concealed carry permit. One of the main things we stress is "reasonable use of of deadly force" We have the right to defend ourselves from threat of bodily harm, by any means necessary, including the use of deadly force. The right to defend ourselves ceases once the threat has been negated. The police have the same rights and responsibilities. Simply running away, for whatever reason, does not pose a threat and is not justification for use of deadly force. Giving the police that power would be Gestapo tactics!

[alphacrimedog]

Looking at the results of the poll just affirms my thoughts that 914 people are pretty smart people. Shoulda, coulda, woulda........My question is who said that the Police just stood around and watched while the suspect repeatedly cried for help? I doubt the Police said that. Its the scum-sucking, trying to get a check lawyer. The sign said "no swimming". My guess is it was there for a reason. It would have been nice if the suspect would have done what the Police asked him to. He'd still be alive. He gambled and lost.They should have used a boat? Give me a break.

As a police officer for 22 years I can tell you that sh*t does happen. One time on midnight watch we had suspect take off running at the sight of a Police car who was checking businesses late one night. The stupid fool took off running across a bridge over the Chattahoochee River which seperates Georgia from Alabama. The bridge is about 80 feet above the water. Well this fool makes it about 3/4ths of the way across with the police officer giving chase behind him. All of the sudden he decides to take a nose dive over the side of the bridge into the river. They found his body about 3 hours later, his head stuck in the muddy river bottom up to his shoulders. We never knew why he ran or jumped. Anyway about his jumping from the bridge.....I'd have to give him a 9.5 on style and a 9.0 on difficulty factor. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/finger.gif)

Once you are in custody the Police are supposed to protect you. This is true. But at the point in time he ESCAPED POLICE CUSTODY. its all on him.

[Lawrence]

We have the right to defend ourselves from threat of bodily harm, by any means necessary, including the use of deadly force. The right to defend ourselves ceases once the threat has been negated. The police have the same rights and responsibilities. Simply running away, for whatever reason, does not pose a threat and is not justification for use of deadly force. Giving the police that power would be Gestapo tactics!

Well said. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/clap56.gif)

[vortrex]

running away very often poses a threat. how many times have you seen or heard of criminals fleeing the seen on foot and hijacking a motorist? how about when they then mow over someone or hit another car while trying to escape?

[Lawrence]

And once a fleeing poses a clear and immediate threat to the life of another - then deadly force should be used. But NOT before.

[vortrex]

what deadly force was used by these cops? I see no evidence of force.

[tat2dphreak]

strike 1) he shouldn't have ran...

strike 2) under-age+drunk+driving

strike 3) don't be dumb enough to jump in the water if you can't swim

I HIGHLY doubt the police stood idley by and watched him drown. more likely that they didn't see him until it was too late, if at all...

I feel bad for the guy, but I think our little swimmer here is in the wrong.

[Lawrence]

From the story I read, there was no deadly force used. Running away and jumping into a lake isn't threatening someone else's life. Hence, no deadly force.

However, according to your proposal, the cops should have shot him in the water, for running away.

[seanery]

I think alphacrimedog nailed it.

"He escaped Police custody."

If a guy breaks out of jail and is hit by a car, who's to blame?
Same situation (basically) to me.

[vortrex]

personally, I see nothing wrong with shooting him. again, I don't have to fear being shot because I'm surely smart enough to not run from a bunch of cops with handcuffs, clubs, guns, and dogs.

[Steve Thacker]

rockaria sounds like our smartest forum member.

police should have the license to kill ANYONE who runs from them, armed or not.

Vortex am I reading you right or are you on crack? Lets just have Nazi Germany all over again huh?! Lets just give the cops the ability to shoot a unarmed person....Geez

I'm with Lawrence. The authorities in this country are way off the chart as far as unchecked powers. Our liberties are few and dwindling down everyday, because people are just handing them to the govt because they are weak and don't want to deal with things.

"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety"---Ben Franklin

The police have a job and I'm sure they did theirs that night. The idiot drowned due to his own bad choice. Life is about choices, good and bad.

[Curvie Roadlover]

personally, I see nothing wrong with shooting him. again, I don't have to fear being shot because I'm surely smart enough to not run from a bunch of cops with handcuffs, clubs, guns, and dogs.

Are you in the funeral business?

[Lawrence]

I believe that giving the police, or any level of law enforcement, that much life-or-death power is just asking to move towards a police state and destroy the freedoms that our country is based on.

So, I think we should agree to disagree.

[vortrex]

honestly I would rather have a police state and less crime, but that's just me. to me, there is no freedom to commit crimes.

hey send the paypal for those seals! I am going to ship stuff tomorrow, ONCE.

[Rockaria]

My main point is simple. You can do anything in the world, Anything you want, but each action has a cost to you. We have to accept those costs. We choose to accept them and do what we do. Moral society is degrading at a rate faster than the costs are rising.

Simple: Would you speed if the ticket was $5,000?

Nope!

Would you Drive drunk if the sentance was 10 years in Jail?

Nope!

Would you run from a cop if you knew they could...

Nope!


Simple, The costs just aren't enough. Now I can run from a cop, No matter the situation and sue for any reason. Cool!

We all know that the guy in this story was casuing no harm to anyone but themselves. My points are aimed at all those A__ Wipes we see on that police chase show.

"I ran from the cops and killed a fimily of 5 because I did not want to get caught because I was smoking Dope!" "But now I am suing becasue the cops hurt me!"

WHAT ABOUT THE INNOCENT PEOPLES RIGHTS?

This is a very touchy subject to me...

I know the government can have too much power and we all feel like its a police state, but man, some days I fear for my life. Not from the govermnet or cops, But from people who choose to do what they do and harm innocent lives.

Rant #2 over...