TYPE lV NIKASIL CYLINDERS, From 98mm to 104mm Options

[Type 4 Unleashed]

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[Type 4 Unleashed]

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[Jake Raby]

Fact is IF they turn out to be better than cast iron cylinders I'll probably look into using them on my engines currently cast iron equipped.

Many people **think** they know my intent but they have no clue..

Plain and simple, if the components are worth their price and don't require intervention before use I'll probably end up using them.

IF they follow the quality of most Chinese Type 1 parts and harm the Type 4 engine's reputation as being the superior 4 cylinder aircooled engine that will be known soon enough and it won't be me doing the sharing, it'll be the failed engines, head leaks and other issues.

My engines larger than 96mm bore will always use Genuine Nickies, the results and development that we have attained with them in the past 6 years have been incredible.

All I can say is that results will be available to those that don't want to spend 1K bucks on a component that doesn't even come with a proven head torque value.

[bernbomb914]

we are currently assy a motor with these cly.(104s) they are less than .001 out of round. we have J&E pistons made for them and special ($150) rings that are used on 6 cly engines. This in conjuction with Jakes DTM cooling system shoule be interesting.

Bernie

[Jake Raby]

Bernie, was that .001 measured under torque or static on the bench?

[bernbomb914]

static I belive. Doug at Fat Performance did it. he has a lot of experance with these motors in off road racing.

[Aaron Cox]

hm......

you hone cylinders under a torque plate.... so shouldnt you measure them while torqued?

[Jake Raby]

Sure, just wondered.. Most people do not understand how much a cylinder can change when put under torque load.

[bernbomb914]

I am sure that Doug Knowes What he is doing. I didnt ask

Bernie

[Jake Raby]

I'm sure he does too... Glad to see that they are getting direct experience with the cylinders.

[anthony]

I'm curious if stock 911 nikasil cylinders are cast or billet?

[cnavarro]

factory Mahle/KS 911 cylinders = cast, centrifugally.

[Bleyseng]

I just think that people here in the know are from the "Show Me" state which ain't bad until these are tested.

I hope these do work out and can replace the iron cylinders out there (AA) so we also have the choice to use em. Ahh, I am dreaming but one can only hope as it would be nice to have that extra cooling from aluminum cylinders for more stockish motors.

Still sitting on my Nickie 103mm's for my next motor...now to find that pot of gold so I can afford to build it. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/headbang.gif)




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[anthony]

Charles, have you guys explored making a less expensive cast Nickies type product?

There is obviously a need for a nice 96mm drop in solution. The only choices now are cheap AA cylinders or finding OEM 94mm cylinders that are good and having them honed to 96mms. There would obviously be a high demand better performing aluminum product that could come in at say $1000 for a set of cylinders and Keith Black pistons.

I'm just thinking out loud here and wondering if it's even economically feasible.

[bd1308]

Yeah, say a nice small cast cylinder, even cast iron, with nickie plating on it, and call it Fickie, for Fake Nickie or something catchy like that

[cnavarro]

FYI, I have plated cast iron cylinders - in fact, it works really well.

Little background. Way back when, before LN was LN and this was just a project, a cast cylinder was a consideration. Doing them billet was more or less just a means by which to get them done in short runs with low quantities. There have been many iterations when it comes down to what Nickies are machined out of. We started with an alloy similar in strength to the factory cylinders ~30,000 psi. We made tweaks from year to year (and batch to batch) until we ended up with the current alloy used which is ~52,000 psi (as high as 55k psi). Way stronger with ductility and % elongation that can't be matched by any casting alloy, that is why they work so well and are so forgiving. The type 4 stuff is just starting to scratch at their potential. The 911 guys have realized their potential - bigger bores, more boost, more compression.

Part of the beauty of the way I do things is the custom nature of the product and my flexibility. A big part of the cost is the process by which the material is made and the amount that has to be machined (and scrapped) to make the product. Sure, I could cast a blank and machine it, but it wouldn't be the same. That's what CMW did. They ended up just coming to me for custom cylinders. I don't want to compromise quality or anything else I have worked so hard to achieve, just to sell cylinders in volume. There is no way to compete with China. Not even plating OE cast iron cylinders.

I offered a biral cylinder back in the day. It was expensive to make and did not deliver the bang for the buck of Nickies. You're better off boring out an oe cylinder, cryoing it, and plating it for that kind of money.

[cnavarro]

What the guys in china should have made was a quality biral in a 96mm- that's where a casting would be optimal - then you don't have to worry about rings, head studs, etc. They would work with stock head studs and you could use any pistons and rings. Hell, even make them in a 94mm bore and then they could be bored out to 96. You could even make a 98mm machine in and I think it would last for most applications in a biral. If I had the time and money, that would be a product I would want to offer to fill the void. I may still do it, but there are bigger fishes to fry at the moment.

[Type 4 Unleashed]

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[gothspeed]

So what is the verdict on these??? Has anyone used them? If 50k miles from a set of 96s or 98s is possible, it would work for many people.

........................

Try just running them like theyre supposed to be run, instead of putting them under 30 # of boost and running 1200F head temps.

+1 a real life test would suffice, many components will not hold up to 'abuse'. I wouldn't expect them to be better than cylinders that cost a lot more, but if they last similar to cast iron, it would be pretty good IMO.

I'm curious if stock 911 nikasil cylinders are cast or billet?

Factory Mahle are castings. Probably a very controlled hi-tech process though.

[Chris Pincetich]

If you can afford them, contact Len and get some Nikkies from LN Engineering.
They are the bomb. Reliable builds reported here with all sizes in a TIV.
No direct experience from me, I just read a lot. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)