charging issues Options

[r_towle]

Hi,
So I had a wierd experience yesterday...

I drove my car about 200 miles to get my son at school..

I turned on the lights, heater, tunes at about 75 miles...

Heat and tunes where on all the way...

Got back, stopped by to a meeting...came out 30 min later...battery seemed dead...when I turn the lights on, they would light up, when key turned to start, lights went out completely...

Ok, I changed the Voltage regulator a few months ago due to what I thought was non-charging...

I figured I had that again...I go out this morning..25 degrees last night...car started right up...

So, WTF...

Could an alternator be checked in the car...I know if I get voltage at the battery while running I am charging...but this seems to be intermitant...

I checked all my wires...all tight...I even ran a seperate ground to the starter during my last voltage regulator diagnosis..

What is up here...is the alternator dying?

Rich

[Marlow]

I had something similar happen in my truck. As it got colder my truck seemed harder and harder to start, starter would barely turn over engine. Sounded like it was really struggling. Replaced the battery -- no change. Turned out the lug connecting the positive battery cable from the battery to the starter was completely corroded and a point of high resistance. Changing out the lug solved the problem. Could be related to your issue? Might consider checking the resistance of your positive and negative cables?

[r_towle]

Well, I replaced all the cables last time...

I checked the voltage at the battery while running...its like 13.8 or close...certainly better than it needs to be...

I cleaned all connection and added the extra ground cable right to the starter body.

So.......
I guess, could the starter be suspect here?
How can I check the alternator without the voltage regulator...is that possible?

How can I bench test the voltage regulator...

This one seems hard to reproduce...

All I can think of is that it is somehow related to how hot the motor was...I came back fuly loaded and pushing it hard...so it was hotter on the way back...

What could heat up and cause this symptom?

Rich

[Marlow]

13.8 volts sounds like the alternator is doing it's job.

I just ran out and tested something. When I try to start my car with the headlights on the headlights go out while the key is in 'crank' position and then come back on when the key springs back to the 'run' position.

I would suspect something with the ignition switch, seat belt relay (if you haven't bypassed that), or starter itself.

[Marlow]

Perhaps you're experiencing the dreaded Bosch hot start problem? Are you running a stock starter?

[ChicagoChris]

Indeed it sounds like the hot start problem. I have had it on both my 14's and on several different starters. Put a heat shield on the starter. Either a wrap or fashion a sheet metal one. Get the hot start relay or a secondary solinoid and you will be fine.

Chris

[r_towle]

I am sure I replaced that starter within the last five years...

Tell me what the real deal is with the hot start problem...

What are the symptoms....

I could not even get a click from the solenoid...

Is this something that could be cured with a little creative ducting of cold air...

I have a hard time believing it was a hot start problem...it was 25 degrees out ...

Rich

[Marlow]

Reading through old posts I gather the following:

1. The Bosch solenoids suck and after a while they get finnicky.

2. The solenoid is activated by the ignition switch directly and travels through some 20 feet of wire. Some people have reported only 9v at the solenoid terminals. In this case you may not even hear the solenoid "click".

3. The hot start relays don't always fix the issue.

4. A failing or cracked ignition switch can also seem like a hot start problem (in fact I think my car suffers from this because occasionally it won't start cold, not even a clicking noise from the solenoid. Couple tries later and it fires up.).

That fact that you said it was only 25 degrees out makes me think it's something in the ignition switch. Have you ever replaced it?

[ChicagoChris]

How do you figure it out? Well here are some "not so scientific" way that I have used.

1> When the problem occours. Get under the car and hit the solenoid with something heavy and metal. ie a hammer a wrench. If it works it is the starter.

I know it was cold when you used the car but you went for a long drive and it gets warm under their. And as for the age of the starter...I seem to be replacing mine about every 3-4 years. They are old and I would guess that you get the re-build ones like I do. The heat shield should help a lot. And running a cooling duct to the starter should also do the trick. I have a secondary solinoid on my car. I will have to get the part number after the holiday. It isn't the "hot start" and I haven't had the problem this year. I had it on my last car and it never happened. I did not have it on this car untill recently and have replace the starter 2 times so far. The heat shield is next.

Chris

[porsha916]

On my 914/6 years ago I had a hot start problem(engine cranked over very slow when engine was hot) , I put a gasket between the trans/case and the starter to stop heat transfer. Never had the problem again!!! Now I attach a 6 gauge cable to the battery ground and the other end to the starter housing Bolt, it seams to work well. Your problem seems to be a starter/solenoid drawing to much current. When problem occurs does other electrical equiptment (radio,fan, or dash lights) go Dim? To see if alternator works test battery voltage then start car and test voltage with car running above 1000 rpm's if voltage is higher alt/regulator is operating. Make sure the fan belt is tight. Take Care Bill

[r_towle]

could be, she was hot when I stoped, and it started two days in a row now afterwards....

I just never had it happen.

I am gonna take out the ignition just to make sure its not the switch...

If it is a hot start problem, I will get a new one...

Rich