New electronic ignition system, 123ignition, not yet for US sale Options

[lapuwali]

I first heard about these guys about 3 years ago, and talked to them briefly. It's a Dutch company making distributors that are fully electronic. No mechanical advance mechanism at all, just a processor controlled system installed entirely inside a distributor housing. It has 16 different advance curves built in (selectable with a rotary switch). Nice billet housings with a sealed bearing supporting the shaft. Vacuum advance or not, all done electronically. A very nice idea.

At the time, they had distributors for many Ducieller and Lucas systems available, and were about to produce Bosch setups for air-cooled VW/Porsche four-cylinder applications. I talked to them about becoming a US distributor for the air-cooled Bosch version. However, they were asking 183 euros for them wholesale (US$216 at current rates). That, plus shipping, duties, etc., meant I would've had to charge over $300 for them at retail, which I didn't think is viable for the US VW market, considering the 009 is still (undeservedly) well-loved and is under $100 new, and even a "high end" Mallory is $250 new. The Euro was rising frightening against the dollar when I talked to them, and they weren't interested in hearing marketing realities, so I dropped the whole idea.

They still don't have a US distributor for the Bosch versions, but they do have a North American distributor for the Lucas version (in Canada), and at least one US shop is now selling the Lucas version, for $360.

Perhaps they're just used to paying a lot more for stuff in Europe, but I still don't think this will fly in the US VW market. The 356/912 market might be vaguely interested, but that's not a very big market, and the 356 guys in particular tend to be more interested in originality than actual function. They'd gladly pay the price, but I'd wonder if you could bring them in economically.

Just passing this along in case someone here thinks they can negotiate a better deal than I could, or thinks they could make a go of it. If a US distributor appears for the Bosch version, this would be an interesting thing to look into for a 914, particularly if you run carbs or aftermarket EFI, and don't want the hassle of crank-fire ignition.

www.123ignition.nl is their main site.

[golfguy]

check out CBPERFORMANCE.COM pertronix beat you to it they make one for $160.00 (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/dead horse.gif)

[ArtechnikA]

i wish them luck selling into the "Porsche 256" market...

i'll look them up again when they make a 6-cyl twin-plug model, but nowadays i think crank-triggered is going to be the way to go there.

thanks for the pointer!

[lapuwali]

check out CBPERFORMANCE.COM pertronix beat you to it they make one for $160.00 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dead horse.gif)

Golfguy, this is quite different from the $170 Pertonix billet distributor, which is pretty much equivalent to a Mallory Unilite, in that it still has a mechanical advance mechanism, it's just electronically triggered.

What 123 sells is a fully electronic system with NO mechanical advance mechanism at all. The advance is done entirely electronically, and the curve is settable by just turning a switch. You can also select several different vacuum advance curves by just turning a switch. No mechanical parts involved at all. The only wear part left is a sealed shaft bearing. The cap and rotor are Bosch parts.

Rich, I completely agree that crank fire is the way to go for all out performance, but you have to admit this would be much more plug and play for cars with distributors.

If they reduced the wholesale price by about 50 euros and I got over my jitters about the Euro/$ exchange rates, this would be a viable deal. I suspect even cheap VW owners would buy this for $250. $350, however, and it's likely to be passed over.

[JeffBowlsby]

Sounds like a great item. Anyone interested in replacing or upgrading their ignition system would also consider the cost of fabbing/mounting/tweaking the crankfire set-up...this dizzy looks plug and play and thats worth something...100 bucks is not a big delta when you consider the true costs and headaches....the crankfire systems I have seen looked rigged and hacked...

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/cool.gif)

[Jake Raby]

I already tested one and already chatted with them.....

That was 2+ years ago- loks like I need to drop them a line! At that time I didn't think they would ever bring it to the US market..

BTW- The pertronix billet dizzy sucks, a Mallory whipped it's ass without even needing an internal advance adjustment...

FYI I have had a billet crank fire mount since 2001 when we first did our twin plug TIV heads with direct ignition.. It bolts right on with a DTM (another benefit of the 914 DTM!)

[lapuwali]

Sounds like a great item. Anyone interested in replacing or upgrading their ignition system would also consider the cost of fabbing/mounting/tweaking the crankfire set-up...this dizzy looks plug and play and thats worth something...100 bucks is not a big delta when you consider the true costs and headaches....the crankfire systems I have seen looked rigged and hacked...

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/cool.gif)

I agree that spending the extra $100 more than covers the hassle, but it's still a tough sell, IMHO. You'd be facing a major hurdle with no brand to reassure people that the extra $100 would be well spent.

Now, if Jake sold them, there'd be a more ready market, because there's some brand-name trust built up from the Raby name. You'd still likely not convince the idiots who spend $3000 on Type 1 engine parts and then stick on an 009, but...

Best of luck to whomever picks this up.

[Jake Raby]

The system impressed me.. The engine I tested it on was a 2615 I built for a customer in the Netherlands- He sent it to me, as I had never heard of them.. I did not test it side by side with a Mallory, but I expect it wouldmake very similar, if not more power.

If I can get my hands on another one and gather some data from the same engine fully optimized we can make a full observation.

Ignition is very important to overall power... Its not the voltage, but the adjustability of the advance curve and the accuracy of the timing that makes power, reduces CHT and makes for MPG gains.

Have I mentioned lately just how big a piece of shit the 009 really is???.

[JmuRiz]

Have I mentioned lately just how big a piece of shit the 009 really is???.

Not lately, but now is as good a time as ever, haha.
I can't wait till I'm in the position to get a new motor with goodies like Mallory or this new system.

[lotus_65]

anyone have any more info on this 123ignition setup?