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> valve lifters, big dissapointment
Elliot_Cannon
post Aug 28 2003, 11:03 AM
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Hi,
Finally get the 2.2 installed in my 73. I needed to get the 44idf carbs adjusted and and valve train was making a lot of noise. I took it back to the engine builder yesterday to have these adjustments made. I get a call from them this morning saying that they have to take the engine back apart because the cam had been worn down. Something about bad lifters! This on an egnine that cost me $7000.00 and had LESS THAN 20 MILES ON IT. These folks are supposed to be THE VW engine builders on the west coast. So now I have to go back up to their shop, drive the car home, remove the engine and bring it back up to them. Sorry to rant here but my wife is tired of hearing about the car.
Elliot

FAT PERFORMANCE (IMG:style_emoticons/default/fighting19.gif)
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rhodyguy
post Aug 28 2003, 11:13 AM
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Chimp Sanctuary NW. Check it out.
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[QUOTE]. why is all of that your responsibility? they wouldn't spring for the tow atleast? you didn't get a turnkey for $7000? bet the wife is pissed. sorry for your misfourtune.

kevin
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tryan
post Aug 28 2003, 11:14 AM
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must be all that rtv on the pushrod tubes.

sorry dude. better luck on the second go around.

rant on. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/fighting19.gif) . it will make you feel mo betta.
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cgnj
post Aug 28 2003, 11:18 AM
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Well, That sucks.

There was a tread on STF about lifters and the fact that Johnson was no longer making lifters for WebCam. Two or three motors ate up the cams. Because of this I decided to go ceramic. Don't know if works any better. Do know it is more expensive.

Carlos
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rhodyguy
post Aug 28 2003, 11:18 AM
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Chimp Sanctuary NW. Check it out.
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fly up and sit on my deck if you want to. SERENITY NOW!!

kevin
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redshift
post Aug 28 2003, 11:19 AM
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Why is this happening so frequently?


M
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Elliot_Cannon
post Aug 28 2003, 11:53 AM
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Hi,
I can drive the car OK. The cam isn't worn down totally but it won't get any better. I'll be able to get it home today. I should have the engine out tomorrow sometime. It's justs a pita to have to go through all this again. I have floor jacks and hand tools so it will take a little time. It should go quicker than last time since I have a little practice now. Hey, maybe this is a good excuse to buy more tools! They don't like to work on cars. They're just engine builders. At least they will make it good. I suppose they could have said nothing and sent me home with it that way and let me figure it out myself. I better at least get a free "T" shirt or something for all this trouble.
Cheers, Elliot
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Elliot_Cannon
post Aug 28 2003, 12:00 PM
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QUOTE(rhodyguy @ Aug 28 2003, 09:18 AM)
fly up and sit on my deck if you want to. SERENITY NOW!!

kevin

Thanks for the offer Kevin. I retire in 2years 8months ( but who's counting). My wife likes the Pacific NW so we may end up there. We visited the San Juans and a few of the smaller towns in the area and kinda liked it. My problem is, if it gets below 50 degress F. I lose conciousness. Anyways keep a spot open on your deck for me and I'll bring the wine, beer, whatever.
Cheers, Elliot
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Brad Roberts
post Aug 28 2003, 03:56 PM
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Hum... 2 engines in 2 weeks.

I just received a new cam and lifters from WEB.

When are we going to start holding them accountable ??


B
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redshift
post Aug 28 2003, 04:05 PM
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This makes 4 Type-IV engines (Web) I can count from here, plus 2 factory.

In.. 7 months? WHAT?


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Elliot_Cannon
post Aug 28 2003, 04:27 PM
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Hi,
I just got the car home and will start pulling the engine out. I spoke with Ron at Fat Performance and he told me he spoke with other engine builders who have experienced the same problems. WTF is going on with these lifters and cams? Are they made in some 3rd world country or what? Does anybody do quality control anymore? I told them if they wanted to upgrade the lifters I would gladly pay for them. He said he used the best. If those are the best I don't know if I will ever have a decent running engine in this car!! Unfortunately there doesn't seem to be any nondestructive testing for these parts. Apparently you have to destroy the part to find out if it is any good. Twenty miles on a brand new engine and the cam and lifters are shot. Un-freakin-believable. At first I was pissed off at the people who built the engine but the folks at Fat Performance are at the mercy of their vendors like everyone else I guess. Anyway they are standing by their work and I'll try to have the engine back to them tomorrow.
More later, Elliot
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swood
post Aug 28 2003, 04:46 PM
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Now I'm getting nervous. I have a sweet (so I think) Web Cam and when I went to pick it and the lifters up, one of the main ladys there took back the lifters the stock boy brought out and swapped them for the Johnsons because she said they were better. WTH? I'm at stroke level at work and it'll be my hobby/sickness that pushes me over!
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ChrisFoley
post Aug 28 2003, 09:34 PM
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I thought the last batch of Johnson lifters was the problem, then they went out of business. I read at STF that the replacements that Web says are good are two piece, made by Moroso?. Web Cams has a very good reputation and I don't think they want to damage that by continuing to sell inferior parts. Jake Raby switched to someone else's lifters when this shit started. Don't know if he went back to what Web is selling or not. I'm planning to shell out the $$ for the ceramic ones on the next engine.
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redshift
post Aug 28 2003, 10:06 PM
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I need to have questions about my new_new engine.... I need to know if I need to change these before I roll it.

Shit

M
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campbellcj
post Aug 28 2003, 10:41 PM
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Very interesting that this problem has been occurring all over (i.e. FAT too). Ottos has had extreme lobe wear on a few recent low mile engines too. I saw one of the cams and it was unbelieveable. One lobe was essentially GONE after only like 7K miles. It was a factory cam but not sure whose lifters and other bits -- prolly factory too knowing JW. He will only use aftermarket parts if they are undeniably superior or if the real thing is unobtainium at any price, LOL.
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Elliot_Cannon
post Aug 28 2003, 11:08 PM
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Hi,
Do I understand correctly that it is the lifters that are causing most of the problem? Not necessarily the cam? I just don't understand how this can happen so fast. Fat Performance had the engine on the dyno for 15 minutes and I drove it a total of about 20 miles. What kind of metal do they make these things out of? I'll be bringing the engine back to them tomorrow. I was told that next time they will leave it on the dyno much longer. Gonna just let it runnnn. I'll be in the Peoples Republic of China next week. (Probly were the damn lifters came from). I'll be gone all week so maybe it will be ready to install when I get back. I was hoping to drive it up to Ventura. Now maybe I'll just drive it around the block for the first 5000 miles!!
Cheers, Elliot
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seanery
post Aug 28 2003, 11:26 PM
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waiting to rebuild whitey!
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Elliott,

These are the mechanical lifters sold by web?

Those mentioned by Brad earlier are mine!! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ohmy.gif)

I hope they are ok. Should I call Web?


Brad, is there a lot number on the box/packaging for the lifters?
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redshift
post Aug 29 2003, 12:07 AM
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Mine went @ 4800 miles, but the builder says bad gas killed mine, sounded like a cam before I shipped it, it sounded like the first lobe, behind the fan.



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Brad Roberts
post Aug 29 2003, 01:48 AM
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Elliot..it is the lifters. If the hardness of the lifter doesnt match the cam... the lifter wears the cam out PRONTO. I had this exact same problem back in 1996 or so with Web cam and their lifters. I would imagine this is a problem with the heat treater and not the actual manufacturer of the lifters/cam.

It has me scared. I have a lot of engine builds coming up.


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redshift
post Aug 29 2003, 03:21 AM
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I liked it before, when there were enough cars here to drive them til they broke, and get another one....

I think it's time for the engine swap, I can't sleep.



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