 Metal Ready, necessary? |
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| Rand |
 Jan 25 2006, 07:25 PM
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#21
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Cross Member  Group: Members Posts: 7,413 Joined: 8-February 05 From: OR Member No.: 3,573 Region Association: None  |
You don't need the jack plate. Just get a good scissor jack. I was reluctant to remove mine at first.... it's nice to stick a factory jack in there and lift the whole side of the car. When I asked why it was bad, people told me stories about their car rolling forward and ripping the jack plate out... I thought - dumb, that had to be a severely rotted plate, and why wasn't it e-braked and blocked? But in my rust repair efforts, it was easier to just delete and clean. Make it simple and strong. A standard scissors jack is fine and more versatile. |
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| sgomes |
Jan 26 2006, 12:14 AM
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#22
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Electric Member Group: Members Posts: 815 Joined: 6-May 04 From: Campbell, CA Member No.: 2,029 |
When you say "unless you plan on painting" are you including POR-15? How did you spray the MR inside there? |
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| Rand |
Jan 26 2006, 01:09 AM
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#23
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Cross Member Group: Members Posts: 7,413 Joined: 8-February 05 From: OR Member No.: 3,573 Region Association: None |
I don't see the point of trying to spray Metal Ready inside the longs. I guess we'll get different opinions on this, but... Metal Ready is for etching. The inside of your longs don't need that. If you're gonna spray something in there, use something that will encapsulate the rust (kill it) and stop it from spreading.... Such as Hammerite or POR 15.
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| sgomes |
Jan 26 2006, 08:22 AM
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#24
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Electric Member Group: Members Posts: 815 Joined: 6-May 04 From: Campbell, CA Member No.: 2,029 |
What he said... And MR supposedly leaves behind a layer of zinc.... something these cars should have had from the start! |
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| VaccaRabite |
Jan 26 2006, 08:32 AM
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#25
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En Garde! Group: Admin Posts: 13,755 Joined: 15-December 03 From: Dallastown, PA Member No.: 1,435 Region Association: MidAtlantic Region 
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This is what I did as well. When I cut the bad metal out of my longs, I sprayed the insides with a ton of metal ready, and let it get a good zinc coating. I've not doen that to the center tunnel yet, due to me not wanting to harm the wire harness still in it. Basically, anywhere I saw a bit of rust that was small, but too concealed to cut into, I sprayed down with a ton of metal ready. Zach |
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| maf914 |
Jan 26 2006, 09:40 AM
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#26
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Not a Guru! Group: Members Posts: 3,049 Joined: 30-April 03 From: Central Florida Member No.: 632 Region Association: None
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You can spray chemicals using a garden insecticide sprayer, the type with a 2 to 3 gallon plastic bottle with attached air pump. The spray wand can be inserted into hard to reach spots with the nozzle adjusted to give a wide spray pattern. They are cheap, $20 or so, at Wally World, K-Mart, Homa-da-Pot, etc. |
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| SirAndy |
Jan 26 2006, 01:18 PM
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#27
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Resident German Group: Admin Posts: 42,245 Joined: 21-January 03 From: Oakland, Kalifornia Member No.: 179 Region Association: Northern California |
depends ... you can brush/spray POR over MR, but if the MR layer is too thick, you'll need to scuff it for the POR to stick right. if you don't do that, the POR will still make a good seal, but it will not stick well to the MR. i have been able to peel of POR in big chunks from a piece of trunk that had too much MR on it ... i don't think it would be a problem in the center tunnel, but then again, i did not use any POR inside the center tunnel at all ... bottomline, if you're gonna put something on top of a thick layer of MR, you have to prep the MR surface first to get some "stick". just like you would prep any other surface for paint ... i just use a spray bottle with a small hose extension ... (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/smash.gif) Andy |
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| SirAndy |
Jan 26 2006, 01:20 PM
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#28
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Resident German Group: Admin Posts: 42,245 Joined: 21-January 03 From: Oakland, Kalifornia Member No.: 179 Region Association: Northern California |
POR 15 does not kill rust. no chemical bond with the rust. MR on the other hand does ... it's not a "etching" primer. it's a "rust-converter". POR is not. it's just to seal a surface. any rust "under" a layer of POR will still be just that, rust on your car. if it's big enough of a bubble, it will continue to eat through your car. POR does not kill rust ... (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/cool_shades.gif) Andy |
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| Rand |
Jan 26 2006, 01:46 PM
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#29
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Cross Member Group: Members Posts: 7,413 Joined: 8-February 05 From: OR Member No.: 3,573 Region Association: None |
I'm with you Andy - not arguing... But it seems like they are saying Metal Ready isn't necessary and POR15 will permanently stop the rust...
For sure anything loose needs to be wirebrushed off and thick rust should be cut out before any other treatment. |
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| SirAndy |
Jan 26 2006, 02:16 PM
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#30
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Resident German Group: Admin Posts: 42,245 Joined: 21-January 03 From: Oakland, Kalifornia Member No.: 179 Region Association: Northern California |
i wasn't either ... (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/wink.gif) i've read their "sales" pitch. what i posted are results from my own 4+ years of experience with both products as well as other peoples experience during that time. so far, the best results have been by using both products combined, metal ready to eliminate surface rust and give the metal a protective zinc layer, then por15 to seal the surface completely. i did the complete interior of my car that way 3 years ago and i have had numerous "flooding" incidents since then (car is parked outside). plenty of standing water on my floorboards, but the por15 has been holding up nicely. no bubbling from underneath either. so, it's working for me ... (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/beerchug.gif) Andy |
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| Rand |
Jan 26 2006, 02:33 PM
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#31
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Cross Member Group: Members Posts: 7,413 Joined: 8-February 05 From: OR Member No.: 3,573 Region Association: None |
Nothing like real-world proof. Gotta go with what is known to work!
So has anyone used POR15 without Metal Ready on a rusty surface that was cleaned up (no loose or thick rust) and have results to share? |
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| rjames |
Jan 26 2006, 02:38 PM
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#32
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I'm made of metal Group: Members Posts: 4,305 Joined: 24-July 05 From: Shoreline, WA Member No.: 4,467 Region Association: Pacific Northwest
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What about the Marine Clean degreaser stuff they sell that they say to use before Metal Ready? yikes, it never ends....
My concern with leaving Metal Ready on without washing it off (depending on how much you use I guess) is that it will 'continue' to etch into the metal. What is this etching process? At what point does it stop? I guess when it's washed off, or evaporates, which would lead me to believe you wouldn't want to saturate an area with the stuff and just leave it to evaporate- especially if it's going to take a couple of days or more to do so. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/confused24.gif) |
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| SirAndy |
Jan 26 2006, 02:57 PM
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#33
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Resident German Group: Admin Posts: 42,245 Joined: 21-January 03 From: Oakland, Kalifornia Member No.: 179 Region Association: Northern California |
yes! (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif) worked for maybe a year or so before the rust started to bubble up again and eventually the por15 could be just peeled off in chunks with the rust still sticking to it in the back. that was on a rusty battery tray that had the loose rust stuff cleaned off and then simply por15-ed over with two coats. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/cool.gif) Andy |
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| SirAndy |
Jan 26 2006, 03:00 PM
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#34
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Resident German Group: Admin Posts: 42,245 Joined: 21-January 03 From: Oakland, Kalifornia Member No.: 179 Region Association: Northern California |
very good question ... (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/idea.gif) i can't check on my longs as they're welded shut now, but i can check on my center tunnel as it got the "hurt me plenty" Metal Ready treatment ... i'll go and check tonight or tomorrow and see if i can see any unusual "pitting" of the surface ... (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/unsure.gif) Andy |
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| Rand |
Jan 26 2006, 03:11 PM
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#35
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Cross Member Group: Members Posts: 7,413 Joined: 8-February 05 From: OR Member No.: 3,573 Region Association: None |
I know Ospho does not continue eating metal. After 24 hours, once it's dry, it's done. I wouldn't think Metal Ready could continue acting once it's dry either. To continue acting, it would have to be "fed." Unfortunately, rust is fed by moisture - but I don't think anything in the atmosphere feeds MR. I don't have experience with MR though.
Good stuff! Thanks Andy! |
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| rjames |
Jan 26 2006, 03:58 PM
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#36
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I'm made of metal Group: Members Posts: 4,305 Joined: 24-July 05 From: Shoreline, WA Member No.: 4,467 Region Association: Pacific Northwest
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Yes, big thanks to all who are contributing to this discussion! (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/smilie_pokal.gif)
I just want to make sure I do this right (seeing as I only want to do this once!)
Looking forward to what you find Andy! On related topic... On my car since there is rust at the top of the outside of the longs (running the entire length of the longs) and rust inside the passenger compartment at the floor level (where the outer and inner meet, I guess) I can probably assume that there is surface rust at the very least within the longs. Do I want to cut into them to try and treat it? Or just treat the outside surfaces and check periodically? Wow. Way too many questions. (see below for pic regarding this scenario. Arrow points to a hole, but you can see that rust runs the length at the top. I can't poke through it with a screwdriver, but probably will be able to eventually... (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/mad.gif) ) Attached image(s) 
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| SirAndy |
Jan 26 2006, 04:05 PM
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#37
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Resident German Group: Admin Posts: 42,245 Joined: 21-January 03 From: Oakland, Kalifornia Member No.: 179 Region Association: Northern California |
well, my longs alreay had a "access hole", right under the battery tray. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/icon8.gif) so i didn't really have to cut them open much. you can, however, access the longs (partially) by using the oval holes on the inside (cabin). they're patched with a piece of tar, when removed you'll see the heater muffler. you can spray MR in there through those holes ... on the outside, clean up any lose stuff, make sure it's not rusted through (in which case you should (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/welder.gif) ) then spray MR onto the surface rust ... (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/cool.gif) Andy |
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| sgomes |
Jan 26 2006, 04:09 PM
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#38
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Electric Member Group: Members Posts: 815 Joined: 6-May 04 From: Campbell, CA Member No.: 2,029 |
I'm with you on that. It's a chemical reaction. Once it "reacts" it won't "act" anymore. As I understand it, it's a rust converter. So once the reaction has gone to completion...that's it! Now if you put GALLONS of it on there....the ratio of MetalReady to Metal might not be in your favor. It might continue to etch for quite some time...even after it's dry. |
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| Rrrockhound |
Jan 26 2006, 06:36 PM
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#39
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Member Group: Members Posts: 197 Joined: 30-November 05 From: Delaware, OH Member No.: 5,213 Region Association: None
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(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/agree.gif) Metal Ready is phosphoric acid. Phosphoric is a weak acid, weaker than battery acid, but stronger than acetic (vinegar). They also use it to flavor soda. Anyway, it will only react until it uses up the phosphate (creating iron phosphate, a common conversion coating). It won't just keep etching and etching. I doubt POR-15 would jeopardize their business by making a super-concentrated Metal Ready that would eat up your car. |
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| Katmanken |
Jan 26 2006, 07:32 PM
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#40
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You haven't seen me if anybody asks... Group: Members Posts: 4,738 Joined: 14-June 03 From: USA Member No.: 819 Region Association: Upper MidWest |
I remove all loose rust, clean the surface well and then use ospho to initially treat the rust. Unprotected, the rust will start again.
Next you have to cover the unprotected metal with something. Everybody seems to like POR 15 but it didn't pass my test of 2 coats on a steel strip, dunk the sucker into salty water for 2 weeks. I wanted something better. With thatin mind, I opened my long, used a wire brush and a sand blaster to remove rust, applied ospho, and then sprayed a REELLLY thick bunch of layers of cold galvanize paint in there. The cold galvanize is 95% ground zinc (sacrificial anode) and 5% binder. Salt test showed it is porous soooooo...... Kenny sealed off it with a buncha layers of cavity wax (like cosmoline with rust inhibitors). A British car mag ran rust tests and the Dinotrol cavity waxes provided the absolute best rust protection bar none, sealed scrapes and bumps, and actually protected the metal on the other side and about an inch away from the coating... SO I got neutralized rust, sacrificial zinc and then this cavity wax... Bet I don't have to go in there again.... Ken |
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