Using a Vanagon Distributor, for megasquirt Options

[yarin]

I got an interesting response on the megasquirt forums regarding ignition triggering. I was planning on locking my stock dizzy and installing a pertronix hall sensor unit in there. Has anyone tried this?

QUOTE

Score a distributor from a late model Vanagon with Digifant (NOT the one with the vacuum can). It has: 1) Hall sensor 2) Locked down timing 3) Drops in to the engine Cheap from a junkyard, and you can probably sell the stock distributor on e(vil)Bay and turn a net profit. R2.0

[Mueller]

interesting idea, are you going to run megaspark that uses a CDI box?

your MS will have to control spark timing, the dizzy will just distribute the spark....

i'd avoid the pertronix, a hall circuit can be built for less than $10 and installed in your dizzy or on the fan if you that route.

[DNHunt]

When MSII gets 2nd wheel support, I'm planning on using that dizzy for cam timing. Then I'll switch to COP ans sequential injection. Right now with EDIS I'm just running a dummy distributor that has no rotor.

Dave

[yarin]

I'm in the process of building MS II V.3.0. It supports direct coil ignition with the integrated VB921.

My plan is take the output off the hall pickup, run it into MS, then direct ignition output to coil.

http://www.megasquirt.info/ms2/vb921.htm

Why switch to a cam driven distrubutor pickup if you already have EDIS? Don't you pickup some cam slop? Granted you can't customize spark power or swap coils or anything, but its bullet proof.

I'd like to go with EDIS or any type of crank triggered ignition to get away from cam slop and whatnot.... but for now this is the easiest plug 'n play solution that allows me to control dwell, timing, advance, etc.

Is there a 'how to' for building your own hall effect pickup for a stock distributor?

Thanks!

[Cap'n Krusty]

87-91 Vanagon distributors would be fine, but the plastic plug receptacle on the side goes away from heat and oil fumes, and good ones are pricey and hard to find. Only a boneyard that's not linked to the satellite system would let a good one go cheap. The odds of finding a good one in a PNP yard are slim. The Cap'n

[Katmanken]

I'm gonna correct the Cap'n

That's 86-91. My 86 Vanagon has one...

I agree on odds of finding one that works..... Rebuilts are like $250.00 as they just quit working unannounced. Best Bosch distributor for EFI tho..... With or without a working factory hall unit.... Mueller's $10.00 fix sounds intriguing.....

Don't ask me how I know they break- unexpectedly.. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/blink.gif)

Kwn

[lapuwali]

The Vanagon distributor would relieve you of the need to add a Hall sensor or lock the distributor, but you can also just do both of these to an otherwise junk 009 for very little money. Depends entirely on how much a Vanagon dizzy would go for on the open market. A used 009 can be free to $10.

[alpha434]

Bushings wear out. End up having to put replacement bushings in there, which is a real pain if you've never rebuilt one of them before.

[Katmanken]

There aint nuttin in a Vanagon distributor,,,,,

Outside casing, drive tang on the bottom, a solid drive shaft, a can with notches cut into it, and the hall sensor...

No vacuum, no centripetal advance mechanism, no cam...

Just an upside down timing can (with windows) directly coupled to the drive tang by a solid shaft, and a hall sensor....

No slop, no backscatter from the dizzy, nuttin to mechanically wear (other than 2 shaft bushings), no nuttin...

Bushings- knock out the drive pin in the tang, pull out the shaft and attached timing window can, remove hall unit and you got an empty housing with bushings..... Easy to get to compared to a 009....Lots less parts too..

Ken

[Cap'n Krusty]

Soorrrrrry. 86 to 91 is correct. Brain fart! The Cap'n

[yarin]

Does anyone have pics or a procedure to lock and add a hall sensor to a 009?

Thanks

[alpha434]

Yeah! You had better apologize for being off a whole year!

That could cost someone precious minutes of their ever-so-valuable time.

But anyway- Try it. I want to see how this comes out.

And does anyone know of a good crank fire system? Preferably optical.

[lapuwali]

I don't know of any crank fire systems that are optical. They're all Hall or VR based. This is mostly because the crank wheel and sensor are hanging out in the breeze, where the sensor can easily be covered in road goop. Distributors are reasonably well sealed, so optical stuff there doesn't tend to goop up.

For DIY use, the Ford EDIS system is the best, as it's simple and well documented. Megasquirt has excellent support for it, and you'll find reams of information on the system on the Megasquirt sites. EDIS is VR based, using a 36-1 toothed wheel.

[alpha434]

What- no one's thought to use a po'dunk plastic cover to enclose the optical sensor???

Chevy LT1s and such come with optical fired systems.

[lapuwali]

QUOTE (alpha434 @ Jan 26 2006, 02:07 PM)

What- no one's thought to use a po'dunk plastic cover to enclose the optical sensor??? Chevy LT1s and such come with optical fired systems.

The sensor rotor has to pass through the optical sensor, so it can't be comletely sealed.

Of the aftermarket stuff, it's all VR or Hall. Why does it have to be optical?

[alpha434]

Optical makes no contact. Thats why. Absolutly no hp loss. Imagnie how much hp you lose trying to spin another shaft set at a right angle. Like the stock setup. Then a crnk fire system with gear teeth sucks off just a little. And the optical only sucks off the equivalent of air resistance against a smooth suface (mostly)

[lapuwali]

VR and Hall also make no contact.

VR = variable reluctor. It's a coil of wire wrapping a magnet that, when a ferrous part moves near it, sets up a current in the coil. On a 'scope' this looks like a sine wave where the peak is the part of the tooth that's closest to the sensor, and the trough is the valley between the teeth. This is, incidentally, the same way an electric guitar pickup works.

Hall = Hall Effect, which is a magnetically sensitive transistor. When a magnet passes by, the transistor switches.

In both cases, there's an air gap between the sensor at the teeth on the wheel. The sensor never touches the wheel.

[yarin]

QUOTE (alpha434 @ Jan 26 2006, 02:37 PM)

Optical makes no contact. Thats why. Absolutly no hp loss. Imagnie how much hp you lose trying to spin another shaft set at a right angle. Like the stock setup. Then a crnk fire system with gear teeth sucks off just a little. And the optical only sucks off the equivalent of air resistance against a smooth suface (mostly). Realistically speaking you may lose about 0.001 HP from the contact of points. Compare the rotational mass and resistance of the points system and to a device such as your alternator or oil pump. However completely eliminating a distributor will remove a small load off the engine's rotational mass when replaced with a system such as EDIS.

There is virtually no horsepower reduction due to any of the mechanisms for spark distribution, be it optical, VR, hall or points. For purposes of comparison your oil pump, alternator and fan take up 1000 times more power to spin than a little tiny wheel.

[alpha434]

Oh. Yeah. I've taken care of that. Mwhahaha!

And the fan (was) the worst of all.

[Mueller]

QUOTE (alpha434 @ Jan 26 2006, 03:37 PM)

Optical makes no contact. Thats why. Absolutly no hp loss. Imagnie how much hp you lose trying to spin another shaft set at a right angle. Like the stock setup. Then a crnk fire system with gear teeth sucks off just a little. And the optical only sucks off the equivalent of air resistance against a smooth suface (mostly)

show me 1 crankfire system with a gear that's going to "rob" hp (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/screwy.gif)

my current system is optical and works, but sooner or later I might ditch it for a more robust Hall or VR setup when I change from getting my signal off the dizzy to taking it off the crank...